1.20a tomorrow :D

[Rowyne]

So sit down and play a while. Level a class to 50 then come back and tell us how you feel.

First off, thank you for a well-presented point instead of jumping in with insults.

I do understand what you're saying, that you believe I haven't given the combat system a chance. Trust me, I want to love this game. Otherwise, I wouldn't still be here. I'm providing feedback in the hopes that this game will improve. Your assessment is correct, I have taken some breaks from the game. You pretty much have to, lest the frustration get the better of you.

But what you're saying is that you may have to possibly wait until cap until combat makes sense? Those who enjoy it seem to be level 50 players, which tells me that it's highly tuned to cap and endgame. Yes, that may be the eventual goal, but I have serious reservations about how new players will receive this game if that's how combat will remain into 2.0. How long must new players wait to have fun? 30? 40? 50? That's simply too long.

No, I don't know how melee combat feels at level 50. But I do know that, at least until mid-range, you feel like your hands are tied.

[AdvancedWind]

No, I don't know how melee combat feels at level 50. But I do know that, at least until mid-range, you feel like your hands are tied.

Sorry, you don't.. You may have some idea about low-mid level mage play, but you haven't even equipped a melee weapon at all. You cannot have any idea how melees are doing after the patch without actually playing with them.

Please, buy a lv1 marauder weapon (first combo needs no positioning at all), get it AT LEAST to level 10, start using the damn combo system and your first positional weaponskill, try getting into a duo or something (light party would be ideal, but I know how hard it is to get a low level party), THEN come back and say melee is broken. Before that point, your opnion can be safely ignored.

[Rowyne]

Sorry, you don't.. You may have some idea about low-mid level mage play, but you haven't even equipped a melee weapon at all. You cannot have any idea how melees are doing after the patch without actually playing with them.

Guess you missed the part where I said this:

Stood over my husband's shoulder and watched him, then jumped in and tried it myself. Both of us were sorely disappointed.

So, yes, I have actually tried it out first hand.

[AdvancedWind]

Guess you missed the part where I said this:



So, yes, I have actually tried it out first hand.

Kay, questions:

How many minutes did you spend before proclaiming melee is broken? What's the level of the class you played? Did you try to combo at all? Did you get into a party? Or did you play for 15 minutes, your husband said "See, it's broken!" and you agreed with him and never touched a melee again?

Because my experience with melee classes after the patch has been very enjoyable thus far. I've played solo, light parties, guildleves, tanking and shooting arrows at Ifrit, with levels ranging from 1 to 35, plus archer 50. No offense here, but I'm sure I have far more experience with those classes than you, and I'm still a complete noob when it comes to melee classes. In my humble opnion, they are far from broken.

I'm sure you may have different opnions and that's completely fine and pretty possible, but please tell me you have actually experienced at least some time with a melee class at all. And while we are at it, care to point what feels so bad about them and what you would change? You know, some feedback for our dear developers trying to satisfy yet another consumer?

[Rowyne]

And while we are at it, care to point what feels so bad about them and what you would change? You know, some feedback for our dear developers trying to satisfy yet another consumer?

I have been giving very specific feedback about what I feel is one of the most basic issues. Not just saying, "This sucks, change it." Probably posted it about 10+ times around the forums.

My biggest issue, one that cannot be circumvented, is the fact that you can no longer use any abilities to actively initiate combat. You pull out your weapon, you auto-attack, you watch and you wait for your abilities to light up. It feels non-interactive and slow. The only advice I'm getting in that regard is the Lancer Invigorate ability. But you don't get it until level 14.

I truly believe that someone new to a class and, more importantly, new players in 2.0, will only give a class until roughly level 10 to judge if it feels right (in fact, you've suggested I try out all melees to level 10 before I judge). Plus, even though you get the most out of this game by cross-classing, should it be 100% essential to do so to be able to even play and enjoy combat at all?

I can just imagine this conversation:

New Player: "My Pugilist sucks, I can't even use any abilities at the start of combat."
FFXIV Vet: "Well, you need to go level Lancer to 14, first."
New Player: "...."

Each class needs to have at least one non-TP based ability, right at level 1, that they can use so they're not just watching their character and doing nothing input-wise. No, I'm not asking for the removal of AA or for the stamina bar to come back. Absolutely not. Hated the stamina bar. I don't want 1 1 1 1 1 spam. I think they've made some improvements in 1.20. Combos are fun (I really loved combat in Aion and how it utilized chain skills, which are somewhat similar). I like how casters are more streamlined. But melee doing nothing but watching and waiting at the beginning of combat was a step backward and it greatly overshadows the improvements, to me.

I think Physic said it quite well in the other 1.20 thread. I've highlighted the parts that I feel are most relevant:

i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.