Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Veis_Alveare]

I really like Yoshi P, I think he's an amazing director and he doesn't deserve the hate a lot of fans are giving him for this. We aren't even sure if it was entirely his decision, so I don't think it's fair for people to be focusing on him. That being said, I really don't like that they added any genderlocked races to the game, and I especially don't like that it was Viera that were one of them, but that's personal preference. I would prefer male viera that looked very feminine, like Alphinaud (I wouldn't play them otherwise), but really anything is better than nothing. It's a missed oppurtunity, it would really add a lot more options for people with specific tastes in characters, especially if they made them feminine, since there is a bit of a lack of feminine male options. I know some people would say that Elezen and Lalafell are enough, but Elezen look really strange in general and are super tall, and Lalafell are about 2 feet tall and have toddler bodies. Male viera would balance things out really well, even more so if they added masculine female Hrothgar, which I would probably never play but I know a ton of people would enjoy. I really hope Square Enix is aware of this thread and a lot of the fan's opinions.

Alphinaud is a teenage boy.

No kid Viera, men or nothing.

[Melichoir]

Alphinaud is a teenage boy.

No kid Viera, men or nothing.

Youre conflating children with youthful features (which usually implies more feminine features broadly.) No one is arguing that your character, lore wise, is a teen. Theyre asking for more youthful, effeminate men. To make a point, how do you define 'men'? Do they have to look like leonidus from 300 to qualify? Simply saying "Masculine Features" is vague.

Models like Jordan Barrett, as an example, have some effeminate softer features that give them more a youthful appearance, contrasting that to lets say Chris Hemsworth whos more rugged and typical masculine.

In specifics to Trailmix, Alphinauds features are more effeminate (partially cause hes a twin and designed androgynously). Asking for aspects like that doesnt mean someone is asking for children. And it's worth pointing out that by your own standards, we should remove lalafells completely. You know, due to their child like appearance, even though FFXIV makes it clear they are adults. Though I wonder if thats why we havent ever seen lala fell children, cause of the implications of that? Then again, it's not like the game is shy about demonstrating their adults (they drink, curse, commit crimes, have relationships and earthly desires, etc).


Again, as I said in a previous post, its not people's business why people want certain things. You may not agree with their desires, and you can express that in a fashion such as "Yeah, Id prefer it to be this way cause of x.", but please refrain from the 'slap down' method - You know, where you tell people it's "This way or nothing". That's not productive for conversations. You want Male Vieras to be a certain way, talk about what features you're looking for. Stay positive and add to the conversation, not mean spirited.

[Veis_Alveare]

You may not agree with their desires, and you can express that in a fashion such as "Yeah, Id prefer it to be this way cause of x.", but please refrain from the 'slap down' method - You know, where you tell people it's "This way or nothing". That's not productive for conversations. You want Male Vieras to be a way, talk about what features youre looking for. Stay positive, not mean spirited.

I'm not looking for male Viera at all. I'm unopposed to them under a certain set of standards, primarily that they look like adults.

I won't be positive about anyone being able to play as a childlike model at all and will happily apply only the "slap down" method whenever and wherever I see it brought up.

Lalafel don't look human, if anything they look like the most alien of all the playable races. Most are humans with stretched limbs, exaggerated features or animal add-ons but Lalas are literally shaped like a large potato with a slightly smaller (albeit adorable) potato on top of it. Were it up to me they would also not have been included in the game but I don't see them as being as potentially harmful as literal humanoid children.

This is very much a hill I'll die on and to be abundantly clear there is literally zero chance you'll change my mind about either my opinions on it or my approach in how I argue against it.

No kid viera, men or nothing.

Also I looked up Jordan Barrett, I don't see him as looking particularly "youthful" at all. If people want that as a male Viera that's cool, that's an adult man shaped more or less like a male Miqo with less muscle in the shoulders. He's no Alphinaud, that's for sure. If that's what you want I'm not opposed - if you want a model that could be mistaken for a child you may as well call it quits, I won't budge.

[Senn]

Asking for aspects like that doesnt mean someone is asking for children. And it's worth pointing out that by your own standards, we should remove lalafells completely.

Exactly this.

And it's worth pointing out that by your own standards, we should remove lalafells completely. You know, due to their child like appearance, even though FFXIV makes it clear they are adults. Though I wonder if thats why we havent ever seen lala fell children, cause of the implications of that? Then again, it's not like the game is shy about demonstrating their adults (they drink, curse, commit crimes, have relationships and earthly desires, etc).

We actually have seen lalafell children.


We also saw lalafell children during the starlight event


Adult and child lalafell use the same model.

Although honestly, I don't think we're going to get the type of male viera that sort of look like the hummingway concept art. I like most of the other concept art, so I'm good either way. I just hope we get male viera.

[zeylos]

Alphinaud is a teenage boy.

No kid Viera, men or nothing.

They weren't asking for children, just femenine males. Alphinaud's model could be changed a little and look adult. I reeeally doubt SE will put children into a game filled with speedos and plate bikinis so dont worry about that lol

[Veis_Alveare]

They weren't asking for children, just femenine males. Alphinaud's model could be changed a little and look adult. I reeeally doubt SE will put children into a game filled with speedos and plate bikinis so dont worry about that lol

What's the difference between a child and a "feminine male"?

Neotenous features are inherently both feminine and childlike on men because women are less impacted by secondary sex characteristics, particularly facially. Men develop facial hair, a wider jaw, a more pronounced brow ridge, a larger nose and coarser skin; none of these things are as present in women who retain smoother skin, more subcutaneous fat and less bone growth due to less testosterone driving those changes.

The only characteristics that are exclusively feminine but not childlike are female secondary sex characteristics like breast growth and gynomorphic fat distribution. If you aren't advocating for male Viera with those things they aren't as much feminine as they are neotenous or "youthful" which is pretty clearly not something that should be in this game.

[zeylos]

What's the difference between a child and a "feminine male"?

Neotenous features are inherently both feminine and childlike on men because women are less impacted by secondary sex characteristics, particularly facially. Men develop facial hair, a wider jaw, a more pronounced brow ridge, a larger nose and coarser skin; none of these things are as present in women who retain smoother skin, more subcutaneous fat and less bone growth due to less testosterone driving those changes.

The only characteristics that are exclusively feminine but not childlike are female secondary sex characteristics like breast growth and gynomorphic fat distribution. If you aren't advocating for male Viera with those things they aren't as much feminine as they are neotenous or "youthful" which is pretty clearly not something that should be in this game.

This is an example of femenine males (Kpop is quite clear on that. They look super femenine but they are OBVIOUSLY not children):


An actual child:


Compare that to Alphinaud

[Melichoir]

Snip

If you have no stake in this, then coming in and slapping down peoples own opinions in the manner your doing is uncalled for. Havent seen anyone here say "Yiss, I want children in my final fantasy specifically for....reasons! Yisssss" while they lick their lips creepily. If someone comes in here and expresses that, thats a conversation to have at that time where people here who have an investment can address it.

Furthermore, if you cant keep a positive attitude in the thread, then please dont participate. All youre doing is coming in and acting like a moral busybody pushing your own standards and demanding people cow-tail to you and what you deem acceptable. You want to die on a hill for certain standards you hold, start your own conversation in a separate thread then and die on it there instead of derailing this one here (particularly where derailments of this kind can end up discrediting the entirety of the position of wanting male viera in general). If you cant be constructive to the chat, and come in starting a ruckus purposefully cause you have 'standards', then I think it's time for you to jog on.

[Kelryth]

If you have no stake in this, then coming in and slapping down peoples own opinions in the manner your doing is uncalled for.

just ignore her, I did. Trolls gotta troll.





Source: http://picdeer.com/far_from_eruyt
Kind of reminds me of the illistrations from the Guardians of Childhood books by William Joyce.

[Theodric]

just ignore her, I did. Trolls gotta troll.

Just some friendly advice, but don't call other posters 'trolls'. Even in cases where it may be justified, it's dangerous due to how strictly the rules are enforced here.