Healer identity in 5.0

[Veis_Alveare]

My question is is that the reason though. Or are the they getting tunnel vision with dpsing? In which focusing on heals might solve some issues.

Or are they dps players getting faster queues? Had a healer the other day say they suck at heals but only play healer in dungeons for faster queues since they can usually just dps when a player died due to unavoidable damage fighting the mist dragon. If having to heal more ran those types of healers off and back to the role they really want to do I’d be ok with it.

Edit. I like being able to throw dps as a healer, but I am actually ok with healing requirements to increase so that I have to heal way more than dps. Hell it might be nice if they had to make like the sleep spells become role skills and then players have to do more than just round up large pulls and aoe dps everything down repeatedly. Making it some pulls need to be small and focused/ cc, some pulls that are large, some that single pull mini bosses to mix it up.

Purely anecdotal (though what isn't in this game really) but the healers I see failing to keep up with the healing needs of their parties are rarely doing any dps at all.

I won't act like tunnel visioning on dps doesn't happen but there are very few things that hit hard enough in a dungeon to result in a tank's death and healers who do considerable dps are usually aware of these things. I'll admit I have less bad healers than most people since I often heal things myself but the ones I do see are the ones who are moving around a lot, healing with inefficient tools/massively overhealing and getting caught in avoidable damage themselves.

tl;dr- People who are aware enough to do damage as a healer are also usually aware of their oGCD tools. Mismanagement of those tools can sometimes result in deaths but more often than not it's the people who aren't knowledgeable about all their healing options who let people die.

As far as increasing healing requirements I'm unopposed to it on the grounds that it's in content with some kind of gate on it. Expert roulette is painful enough now when I can pull decent dps numbers as a WHM, taking that away from me means when I'm paired with a tank-stance-tank and clueless dps turns 20min dungeons into 30 minute tragedies. No thanks.

[ForteNightshade]

The issue then becomes that the people who can't even handle the incoming damage now just can't play healers anymore.

I had to Vercure to stay alive in Ghymlit the other day, a place I usual heal with oGCDs and Regen. Some people just... can't apparently.

The thing is... people who aren't handle of doing more than occasionally pressing Cure II shouldn't be able to continue until they learn. By making the game easier and easier, it removes any incentive for people to learn. Why bother getting better when the game offers up participation trophies left, right and center? What the devs fail to realize is they can insist a hundred times over healer DPS isn't a requirement. So long as said requirements remain extremely lax, the community will expect it.

When even Ultimate allows for half your casts to be on DPS abilities. I think we need to reconsider healing requirements. In fact, friends and I did GD without a healer. WAR and three DPS. Did all the huge pulls, no problem. That's how easy dungeons are.

[Veis_Alveare]

The thing is... people who aren't handle of doing more than occasionally pressing Cure II shouldn't be able to continue until they learn. By making the game easier and easier, it removes any incentive for people to learn. Why bother getting better when the game offers up participation trophies left, right and center? What the devs fail to realize is they can insist a hundred times over healer DPS isn't a requirement. So long as said requirements remain extremely lax, the community will expect it.

When even Ultimate allows for half your casts to be on DPS abilities. I think we need to reconsider healing requirements. In fact, friends and I did GD without a healer. WAR and three DPS. Did all the huge pulls, no problem. That's how easy dungeons are.

I'm not arguing from a moral perspective ("It shouldn't get harder, please everyone won't you think of the bad healers?") but rather just what I see as a realistic one; SE has appeared very consistent on the idea that they don't want to force people to improve and so expecting them to do so doesn't fit the narrative.

I agree that it could be a fun thing but I just don't see it as realistic given the current state of the game/dev team.

[Feidam]

Purely anecdotal (though what isn't in this game really) but the healers I see failing to keep up with the healing needs of their parties are rarely doing any dps at all.

I won't act like tunnel visioning on dps doesn't happen but there are very few things that hit hard enough in a dungeon to result in a tank's death and healers who do considerable dps are usually aware of these things. I'll admit I have less bad healers than most people since I often heal things myself but the ones I do see are the ones who are moving around a lot, healing with inefficient tools/massively overhealing and getting caught in avoidable damage themselves.

tl;dr- People who are aware enough to do damage as a healer are also usually aware of their oGCD tools. Mismanagement of those tools can sometimes result in deaths but more often than not it's the people who aren't knowledgeable about all their healing options who let people die.

As far as increasing healing requirements I'm unopposed to it on the grounds that it's in content with some kind of gate on it. Expert roulette is painful enough now when I can pull decent dps numbers as a WHM, taking that away from me means when I'm paired with a tank-stance-tank and clueless dps turns 20min dungeons into 30 minute tragedies. No thanks.

Oh I wasn’t suggesting that those questions were the only right answer. Just that it goes way beyond just a healer not paying attention. And of course it is anecdotal as every player has had his or her own experiences.

If they keep the content easy the some people don’t even try and nothing with change. That’s why i’m actually a proponent of a higher lvl of dungeon for those that want a bit challenge in the four man dungeons. That way the casual base has the standard dungeons and those that like more have the higher ones. Exactly how to implement it would need to be worked out but it would solve some issues.

[Truen]

So I know this will be an unpopular opinion, however I am not really mad about not getting a healer (I cant lie I was originally).

However in my opinion, if we want a fourth healer something needs done about the current healers identity not their balance. Currently we have a cornerstone built with the current healers that makes it almost impossible for SE to expand upon. So my question is why don't they do exactly what they are going to do with Tanks? Draw a line in the sand and say these classes are "Off Healers" and these ones are "Main Healers"?

One way I see to do it throughout the 5.0 expansion would be to make some core class changes.

SCH: In my opinion they need to embrace the oGCD healing.
1. Get rid of Succor, Adlo, Sacred Soil, someone else can have shields.
2. Give the SCH heals based around our Atherflow stacks. (Well balance the ones they have)
3. Consolidate Eos / Selene and trim the abilities they get.
4. Give a more engaging DPS rotation.

...

Am I saying this would go over well with the masses? Probably not at first, as people are pretty attached to the current healers. I am also not saying that these changes shouldn't come without nerfs and buffs, I am a SCH main myself but I am not so blind as to not see they are a bit OP right now. What I am saying however, is I think with the current state of healing, and how similar all the healers feel is hindering the ability for SE to create a new class that would be fun and original.

Please let me know what you think, about these concepts, and about the current state of healers. I personally am hoping for big reworks come 5.0!

Yuck. These are terrible suggested changes. I am against the attempts to dumb down the SCH class like what I see being proposed here. I really hope they don't screw this patch up and destroy a class I enjoy playing right now...of the proposed changes I hate the consolidation of our fairies the most, but getting rid of Succor AND Sacred Soil is crazy. Horrible.

[manamoppet]

Would make sens as it is Amdapor-related. Whats buzzes me is how spread they are, relative to the White Mage. Could be a raid buff (omg) where each affected party member is healed or buffed by a personal Morpho (that could be cool).
Unless once again, it's a SCH ability they stole during their trip in Amdapor too

(or it's just an open-world fate and players have the Morpho minion out just for trolling)

You were right, the butterflies was Scholar's, and I'm not unhappy about that all
Seeing the WHM actions on the Live Letter I'm quite happy about what they've shown visually