New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[van_arn]

Seriously, if you think this is an acceptable to-do list for a new player, you need to go outside.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...cenario_Quests

Square retired old questlines with the release of 2.0. Those that had played 1.0 could enjoy firsthand knowledge of what happened back then for additional context, but the opening trailer was all that was essential for a player new to 2.0 to enjoy the story.

In the same way, players should be able to just hop on and play. They don't need to have a deep understanding of every character, they don't need to know the trivia of gobbie cheese, they just need to know only enough to enjoy the outline of the plot. Anything beyond that is busywork and wasted time teleporting.

Those that decide they want to play a visual novel should have the option to play ancient content at first login -- be that through the inn or new game plus. The essence of being welcoming is not requiring players to waste their time on content that is five years old, badly nerfed, and doesn't teach anything the newer content can't teach anyway.

As I've said before, I've seen too many sprouts burn out going through the msq. The entire msq cannot be the default any longer. We're going to see even more burn out during shadowbringers because it took everything they had to just GET to shadowbringers. A few hundred quests before the game is unlocked is too much for square to ask, and it's getting worse every patch.

[Vanitas]

This game already does a horrible job teaching players the fundamental basics on how to play it and is only worsened by the fact that skip potions exist at all and by the way op is complaining it seems they want this to be a FREE feature accessible to anyone at any time? No thanks its bad enough jump pots exist. If your "friend" really wants to bypass the entirety of the game they deserve pay for it like everyone else who bought one.

[PyurBlue]

Because the point of the chapters in a book is that its a series of events and progress. From a purely artistic and creative medium, slow chapters have to exist with high action ones to create a rhythm and flow which ultimately makes the overall quality better. If you're only getting high action all the time, it'll wear down on you. This is basic creativity 101.

You aren't wrong, but this is all kind of tangential. Flow by itself doesn't make the story good, and FF14 being a game needs to also engage the player with gameplay. The player might even choose to ignore the story completely for the sake of gameplay. You could also argue on top of that, as an MMO, FF14 also should try accommodate social interactions, especially with friends.

The MSQ as a long and tedious requirement interferes with gameplay and social interactions when friends are playing entirely different parts of the game. It's perfectly OK to value the latter two things over the story and since the MSQ is essentially a single player game, there isn't really an issue with players skipping it.

Playing through the MSQ is not a better way to play, that's the point that I'm making. I'm very interested in story driven games myself, but I gave up on FF14 around the time I began the Titan arc of the MSQ. This didn't cost me anything, and luckily I saw that the game had potential outside of the story which kept me playing.

You find this philosophy in virtually all mediums - food, books, movies, music, cartoons, comics, and yes games. So some chapters are gonna be slower, and yes there is a little filler at times (which can probably be axed). But just skipping ahead in cause "oh this is boring" demonstrates that the consideration isn't the story, but rather just the punchline. Imagine reading Harry potter, but instead of reading the books, you read the first few pages of book 1, and the last few pages of book 7. You skipped everything in between cause 'oh it was boring'. At that point, why did you even read it. You weren't concerned with the journey the character makes, or the world that was crafted. It just gets summarized into a few pages.

At the point, the why would be up to the reader. They might have found it enjoyable despite skipping most of it. Maybe the story was too long and convoluted, and skipping didn't really constituent missing anything (I'm not specifically talking about Harry Potter, but just in general). Maybe they just didn't like the story overall, but found some specific bits interesting. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Perhaps this is my own personal bugbear and bias, but from my observations, people who skip over all the content cause 'it's so boring' are the same people who weeks later complain about how come there's nothing to do. Game offers you a rich journey, and you pressed fast forward on it and are dissatisfied that there's nothing left.

I only have my own perspective on this. The story died for me around Titan, and the only thing that kept me playing was that eventually I would be able to level up and do interesting things with my friends who had already advanced through most of the game. Still it was a slog and I would often find myself taking breaks from the game, sometimes for months. It was only when I reached the endgame that I became a regular player. I think I might differ from some portion of the player base in that I like to play for fun, and not to chase rewards or progression, but for whatever the reason skipping the 'boring' part of the game only got me to play it more.

Thinking about it, that the MSQ was more of a roadblock than anything else probably made the story even less interesting. If I was able to skip it and play later I might have been more willing to be immersed. I wouldn't have had to weigh listening to cut scenes against joining my friends and enjoying the content.

1) From a purely business standpoint, its in SE's interest for you to play out the MSQ because it means longer sub times, either through time spent or sheer interest. So of course they're not going to just be like "Here, skip all this" without some level of compensation.

Kind of related to why I play above, but leveling through the MSQ is the only time ever that I have unsubbed from the game. Being at endgame just gives you more to do, and being current lets you set your pace without the fear of falling behind everyone else.

2) For game health, you want to discourage newer players from just skipping right to the end. Like it or not, the MSQ still forces players to learn certain aspects of the game. This cuts down more on getting people in higher level content that don't know how to play the game.

My learning was definitely hampered from being unsubbed and coming back to play for only a little bit at a time. It really wasn't until PoTD was added and I was able to level to 60 within that I became really interested in sticking with the game. As a mentor I've heard similar feedback from novices. Low level can just be dull and it's overly simplistic for many. An MMO also doesn't really have an end. As long as there is something to do, you can play indefinitely.

Obviously people shouldn't jump into content if they have no idea how to play, but if SE were to overhaul the MSQ to make it less of a requirement, they could also add a more advanced tutorial for players that get into the game at a high level. The role of guilds in the game is something that I'd like to see overhauled even without MSQ changes. They don't really teach you anything. I think the class guilds should serve as places where players can go to practice playing their classes. If they were changed in this way, skip players could also be directed to the guilds to gain competency without slogging through the MSQ. Guilds that felt like guilds rather than job quest dispensers would also go a long way to building up immersion in my book too.

3) You literally paid for content and then are saying "I don't want it, allow me to skip it for free." That's not how the game was set up. Name me a single player game that says "If you don't like this, just skip it all together!" that hasn't been mocked for that kind of feature.

That's the whole idea of the sandbox game. It's not just a single game that exists to provide exactly that, it's an entire genre.

FF14 is a package. To say that you pay for content to skip is inaccurate. You pay what SE asks to be allowed to play, but then you also have to put up with portions of the game that you don't find interesting and didn't really motivate you to pay for the game. With multiplayer features, I can see a compromise with forcing participation because it keeps the game alive. The MSQ is a solo affair though. It doesn't contribute to game health if many players don't like it.

Theres a difference in QoLs. A QoL with streamlining some of the games mechanics is one thing. If you had to jump through 20 menus just to adjust the volume, that could use a QoL change. And not all 'QoL' changes are healthy for a game. Use wow for an example. When they implemented that you could queue for dungeons anywhere, it drastically hurt the world map. People just sat in town at that point waiting for queue times. It made things more convenient, yes, but hurt the game in other ways.

I agree that QoL can go too far and end up hurting the game. The MSQ slog isn't exactly an uncommon complaint though, so I don't think it can be brushed aside as being made out to be worse than it is. Not everyone hates it, but a lot of people do. I think addressing the issue should be at least a medium level priority. Maybe the answer isn't to skip the MSQ completely, but tying everything to it and making it increasingly long isn't benefiting everyone.

The nuance, I suppose, is maybe trim down some of the MSQ in ARR in 2.1-2.55. As I said, there is some filler, and some of that can be abbreviated a little. But I think just skipping the MSQ all together for free for new players ends up hurting the game by hurting retention. If you cant get people interested in FFXIV with ARR, then they're a lot less likely to stick around long term as is. The story becomes secondary to game play that already isn't really unique. And when you don't have to work for anything, don't have to invest, you don't care if you give it up.

There is going to be a lot of variation between players on what makes the game worth playing or not. I think AAR is a hindrance more often than not. Most of the comments that I hear from new players progressing through the first portion of the story are negative, though it could just be that they are a vocal minority. The biggest problem is that the game was designed with a focus on the MSQ and that untangling content from the story will take some work, but I wouldn't consider it impossible for a second.

[SturmChurro]

Continue posting lies and soon no one will trust any post you make. You will simply be treated as troll who cant be trusted to post seriously which is far more frustrating then anything the game throws at you. If you have a concern then talk and you will get answers to those concerns lie like you have and you will be met with sarcasm, lies and misinformation as no one will believe you. Your also making it hard for veterans to trust people who say their new..

Are you serious? I never lied. I played into all of your fantasies that I have imaginary friends. and am just speaking for myself. Focusing on one thing in my entire post, and discrediting the rest. As outlined in this comment:

Yeah I always discredit anything that begins with "I have a friend/SO/mom/favorite-serial-killer who ..." posts...

"Person-Up" and openly speak for yourself.

Yeah, I am totally talking about myself. When it literally says my main class next to my avatar, and I even have a signature with a couple more 70's, not to mention the fact that my lodestone is publicly available.

Christ almighty dude, and it's still going on. Discrediting everything I say, because I opened with "my friend". I actually have a friend, I only brought him up, because he was the catalyst to my thought on the general player experience, broadly speaking, as I have stated multiple, multiple times in this thread. People continue to focus on random crap, for pages and pages, it is actually really sad. Oh let me guess next post, or page, someone is gonna say again, that I am sad for not speaking up and admitting that I have imaginary friends and this whole post is a fabrication. Get over yourself.

I've seen too many burn out in the hundreds of quests leading up to Stormblood not to encourage skips for new players.

With shadowbringers, it'll only be worse unless square does some pruning.

This is literally what I was saying the entire time. I should have just kept my friend's experience completely out of the post, and maybe people would have actually had a discussion on the true topic here.

Wow, talk about missing the point. They aren't whining. They are giving feedback and their opinion on the not so great leveling process. Not once did they say that playing with their friend was a chore. Perhaps you should dial back on the hostility a tad and actually read what their actual concerns are.

That's apparently a big ask.

That only tells us skip potion or the msq are equally ineffective in teaching players how to play.

That can be solved by more failure states, be that solo gateway fights or more dps/heal/mitigation checks in all content tiers.

There needs to come a point where a player must learn or they do not progress. Because as it stands, they're not required to learn -- so many don't.

Exactly, there needs to be a better solution, as I have stated in previous posts, than buying a damn story skip. There should be something new in it's place for new players similar to WoW as outlined in this, reasonable, post:

Imo the starting experience in WoW was really nice, they usually had you doing combat and goofy gimmick content really quickly and it was even better because there were a bunch of different variations of that (different races). In that thought, I have wondered if perhaps SE in some expansion could create a better "skip" potion where it introduces you as new player but at a much higher level with some story behind you already.

Just as an example (does not have to be like this at all):

While the installer runs, have some lore going and nice music, concept art panels flittering by (if that's here now I wouldn't know because I haven't needed to reinstall in ages lol).

Now once in game start our player character from Ishgard, if they picked the accelerated start option at least (can be other cities), there would be 5 to 10 quests that get you going on the basics and have a particular attention to keeping a nice flowing cadence (good pace) and perhaps a few gimmick quests. These quests would help give you a bit of background to your area, your current objective, and a bit how to play / understand the game (like making sure they know about the golden saucer, and other side stuff). In fact through the story there could either be use of playing other NPC shortly (Aymeric) where the ability list has basic concepts but is straight forward for quick conceptual understanding or a few "time skips" so you play your character at level 30, 50, and finally like 60 (perhaps jumping the player through key moments in the MSQ that they can go back to with new game+). These flash backs besides capturing some key story moments could also be teaching concepts of later fighting (stack, run away, etc, like a flash back of your Nidhog fight). Simultaneously if SE has made the intermediate hall / expert hall they could direct the player to that at the end.

Now you're put into the game with a purpose and sense of belonging but also further along and past some of the "give me soup, slave of light - this soup is cold, do it again!".

Can let other players complete this content via new game+ (so it's not inaccessible unless you're starting new). May also be a way to add a new GC to the game. Ishgard GC could be level x+ (so they don't have to design a lot of old gear/tiers).



Just want to say I've seen this be non-satisfactory/deal breaker for people cross many MMOs. When a friend is like you should try "x" and they ask if they'll be able to play together soon or if it'll be potentially weeks before they can have fun together. Obviously there is a skip potion for that but now you're trying to sell someone the game and cash shop at the same time, that's a fairly big horse pill lol. Probably part the reason WoW gives one skip "potion" for free in the expansions for a while now. Although like I was trying to add above I think SE could add a new start to the game, which would be better experience than just flying by stuff with no reference at all.

Of course some people would prefer to go through it all, because story. So I'm saying the current mountain of content (before being able to reach friends/fresh pastures) would definitely be a deal breaker for some people (even if they're being sold on it by friends).

[van_arn]

This game already does a horrible job teaching players the fundamental basics on how to play it and is only worsened by the fact that skip potions exist at all and by the way op is complaining it seems they want this to be a FREE feature accessible to anyone at any time? No thanks its bad enough jump pots exist. If your "friend" really wants to bypass the entirety of the game they deserve pay for it like everyone else who bought one.

That only tells us skip potion or the msq are equally ineffective in teaching players how to play.

That can be solved by more failure states, be that solo gateway fights or more dps/heal/mitigation checks in all content tiers.

There needs to come a point where a player must learn or they do not progress. Because as it stands, they're not required to learn -- so many don't.

[MPK]

Yeah let's just give every new players completely maxed out stats and maxed out raid gear!!!!!!!!1!!11!!

[Bryan_Weary1]

I got hooked during my first playthrough while still going through AAR. It's the reason I'm still here now, as are quite a lot of people from what I see every day.

Who is this "new player" you speak of? You claim be talking about a general issue affecting all new players, but you've made it clear that you aren't one, and the friend you used as an example doesn't seem to appreciate the vast majority of content the game offers. At this point, I'm not convinced that you have the best interests of the game's target audience at heart.

You are certainly not alone. Got to Garuda way back when, but got a bit of "Dungeon/Trial anxiety(not sure why, breezed through it recently). When I came back, I deleted my character and started over to refamiliarize myself with the game(while crossing my fingers that nobody would gank my name on me). I've been having a blast.

[van_arn]

Yeah let's just give every new players completely maxed out stats and maxed out raid gear!!!!!!!!1!!11!!

Hyperbole. Give players only what they need to play the expansion with their friends, on the day it launches.

[MPK]

Hyperbole. Give players only what they need to play the expansion with their friends, on the day it launches.

Yeah let's just give every new players completely maxed out stats and maxed out raid gear!!!!!!!!1!!11!!

[Sciwolf]

What do you mean msq "doesnt teach anything"? Before someone starts tanking end game, shouldnt they at least learn to tank sastasha? With the jump potion that wont happen.