Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Ariel_Valmont]

I honestly don't understand all the knee-jerk reactions to the concept of any DoT spells whatsoever for RDM. I've seen it here, on Reddit, in-game discussions...

It’s not a knee jerk reaction, it’s being able to enjoy a job that doesn’t have to worry about dot maintenance. Yes this makes us fairly unique, and that doesn’t make us bad.

Our simplistic rotation gives RDM its extremely fluid gameplay. Any movement that needs to be done can be achieved during the GCD, you should be able to move all over the field and not miss a cast due to dual cast and the GCD. Giving us some traits to make things more powerful or some new oGCD abilities can easily make up for the lack of a dot. Personally I’d like to see less abilities going foreword and more traits that change our current abilities in new and interesting ways.

I’d rather they come up with something different than borrowing playstyle from other jobs (thunder and procs, bane/aero3).

RDM is fine without a dot, the only way I’d be ok with one is if it was added on as a bonus to our melee combo or spell finisher. For example, the 3rd enhanced melee strike cause a bleed on the target, or flare/holy causes the target to burn after the initial hit.

This would help maintain the fluidity of the job, which I feel is more important than trying to make us have a more complex rotation.

[Archwizard]

-snip-

A promising start -- I like the idea of using the 'stances' to encourage alternating Verflare/Verholy, assuming they aren't affected themselves -- although I have concerns.

• Removing the Mana gain of Verflare/Verholy effectively cancels out the cost-reduction of the melee combo at or above level 68 (it leaves us at 1 Mana deficit even, although that's a negligible amount). Further, even in the best case scenario the stances would have very little effect on the ongoing rotation, as keeping yourself within the 30 Mana disparity (when 2 spells of the same type are 20 Mana) would mean a maximum of 3 extra spells of either element (without clipping the mana cap) receiving the bonus, ignoring the random access to Verstone/Verfire which could make this more difficult to attain. I'm not saying it's a bad idea -- it's definitely workable -- but I'm on the fence about it.
• Your suggestion for a more "chaotic" generation of B/W Mana would be non-intuitive; randomly losing mana wouldn't feel good, as it would seem like being penalized for no reason, increase the effective cost of the melee rotation, and remove one's control over the rotation; imagine beginning your melee rotation only to randomly lose mana and be put under the threshold for Enchanted Redoublement, or randomly gaining mana and switching which of your Verfinishers you're intended to use. Even in a proc-heavy system, the player is afforded some degree of control.

-snip-

You're correct that we don't have to worry about DoT maintenance. However, I would argue this is because we already have other types of similar maintenance, such as our procs; optimal play demands we don't let any of our procs run out or be overwritten (in much the same manner as DoT upkeep, only arguably more punishing for us to fail in this regard), and I cannot tell you how many times I've come very close with losing Impact due to RNG strings with Verfire/Verstone, or gone into a melee combo with both Verfire/Verstone active. Even a suggestion such as Nezia's would merely replace DoT maintenance with buff maintenance, which at the end of the day is only a matter of who the status effect is applied to.

Further, adding a DoT to our melee combo/spell finisher would not feel rewarding the player, as unless it was an excessively long duration (~60 sec minimum, to encourage alternating Verfinishers), it would alter next to nothing about the rotation, on top of having extreme difficulty maintaining a 90%+ uptime. It would just be damage in DoT form for the sake of having a DoT -- and as I've said before, I would be open to accepting a DoT if its upkeep had some affect on our rotation, not merely for the DoT's own sake.

And finally: There are avenues to create new playstyles, even with DoTs, rather than simply "borrowing from other jobs". One area in which RDM is unique is the dichotomy of B/W spells, which could be taken to many logical extremes even with a DoT (for instance, having us juggle a DoT of each type, or one DoT that alternately empowers spells). Have a little faith.

I want them to flesh out "dead-ends" for every job.

I'm a fan of several of these suggestions, particularly pairing a longcast AoE with Scatter; given the repeating complaint that AoE affects a particularly small area of our damage, however, I would also suggest that such a longcast have a use in single-target as well. (Not difficult to execute, skills like Foul already exist in both.)
Worth noting that we already have a "huge AoE oGCD" in Contre Sixte.
I hadn't even considered using Acceleration to restore MP. A singularly interesting suggestion, especially as it's a relatively short/readily available cooldown.

As for Verraise... I'm not against limiting it, merely on the fence about how to limit it, particularly given that right now RDM's primary utility is in its ability to offer instant Verraises (at particularly cost to the caster). The manner in which you suggest to limit it actually puts SMN ahead of us in that regard, as a recast restriction of 60 sec even with Dualcast would be no different from SMN's ability to Swiftcast Resurrect, just with the cooldown displaced onto the other skill.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I’ve always felt that our procs were more of a priority system, if I get in a spree with ver fire/stone and lose impact it doesn’t really bother me because the former are the better spells to be casting anyway.

Having an action for a dot, isn’t going to be rewarding either. It would just unnecessarily complicate the rotation. MNK is a fine example of how a job can pretty much still have the same rotation over several expansions and still be fleshed out. (I’m aware it has a dot, it’s been there since the beginning). I only bring up MNK because it is the only other job that seems to have a very smooth fluid play style like RDM.

From the way you talked earlier the reason you seemed to want a dot was to continue damaging the opponent while you are having to move/stop casting. Putting it as a bonus on the end of the melee combo/finisher spell would accomplish this and keep the fluidity of the job.

One thing I would like to see is some sort of interupt/stun. Tie it to a oGCD damage action if needed so it has a dual use.

I’m expecting we will be getting something to improve our AOE experience as that is the most bland part of our kit.

I really think at this point they should be moving away from new actions and usin traits to improve the gameplay experience. That’s not to say we shouldn’t get any new actions. I just think using traits is the better way to keep from having to purge to keep button bloat down.