Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

With regards to utility, something I've been thinking about lately: What if Vercure increased the target's vulnerability to healing effects for a brief period? Say, 10-20% extra healing for 5-10 sec.
That way we're not necessarily stepping on healer's toes and may even be encouraged to use it after a tankbuster, and get the fringe benefits from using it on ourselves after big hits.

Alternately, just add a trait (like "Vermedica") that lets it affect allies within 6 yalms of the target, a la Cure III.

While I'm aware that it's not the ideal for a damage class to have utilities that contribute to group survivability (as opposed to damage), it does seem like the best way to fold in our White Magic heritage and extends from our notorious raise ability, especially since SMN already substantially increases group damage and BLM has a better claim to further damage buffs.

[Jollyy5]

Vercure is already a pretty potent healing spell, if it could AoE heal, I would not be surprised if we started seeing raid groups with only one healer since healing requirements in this game are so low that a single well geared healer can take care of it all if everyone in the group knows what they are doing.

Sure, it would hurt the RDM's DPS, but in the long run it would increase rDPS due to a Vercuring RDM still having much higher DPS than a healer.

[Archwizard]

I don't think that's true at all. RDM has no HoTs, no barriers, no oGCD heals or "oh shit" buttons even for itself, and Vercure is the single most expensive quick cast in the kit. RDM can't keep up with tankbusters, and with only 6y splash it wouldn't even keep up with raid healing outside topping people off for stack mechanics.

Saying we could take over for healing just because we'd have a splash-heal would be like saying BLM could take over for tanking 'cuz it has Manaward.

The group would get much better mileage out of using RDM as a DPS, but occasionally deploying spare heals to enhance healers, the same way NIN enhances tanks.

[Mansion]

I don't think that's true at all. RDM has no HoTs, no barriers, no oGCD heals or "oh shit" buttons even for itself, and Vercure is the single most expensive quick cast in the kit. RDM can't keep up with tankbusters, and with only 6y splash it wouldn't even keep up with raid healing outside topping people off for stack mechanics.

Saying we could take over for healing just because we'd have a splash-heal would be like saying BLM could take over for tanking 'cuz it has Manaward.

The group would get much better mileage out of using RDM as a DPS, but occasionally deploying spare heals to enhance healers, the same way NIN enhances tanks.

May I remind you an AST can solo heal the Weapon's Refrain?
You get the idea, it would not be Meta, but a support DPS that can AoE heal in between one single healers oGCD would sure be handy in some fights.
And as previously said, I'm not sure that in a team with two healers, a RDM AoE heal would happen anyway. In an emergency situation perhaps, but that should not be the basis of support. See how Red Mages currently struggle outside of prog. Healing and raising is a thing, support should be another.

I'm of the "let healing to healers", that's something they manage very well. But I'd like every DPS having access to a Manawall, Second Wind, Blood Bath or else, that would be their "oh shit" button, and healers take over then.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't think that's true at all. RDM has no HoTs, no barriers, no oGCD heals or "oh shit" buttons even for itself, and Vercure is the single most expensive quick cast in the kit. RDM can't keep up with tankbusters, and with only 6y splash it wouldn't even keep up with raid healing outside topping people off for stack mechanics.

If the only point at which a party wholly needs a second healer is for infrequent, scheduled periods of damage each no less than two GCDs apart... I don't see why you wouldn't trim the 2nd healer for a RDM.

And, if RDM could AoE heal, those situations would actually be pretty plentiful. We're not replacing the main healer, after all, and of the two healer's Abilities and Spells each, it's rare than more than 2 categories (MH-Abil, MH-Spells, OH-Abil, OH-Spells) are ever necessary to top a tank (back) off to survivable HP before or after a tankbuster. RDM + solo healer would already allow you, essentially, three of those categories. It's mostly burst AoE that would ever demand both healers' full action, and once RDM can precast+instant AoE for better than a Cure III...

[Archwizard]

May I remind you an AST can solo heal the Weapon's Refrain?
You get the idea, it would not be Meta, but a support DPS that can AoE heal in between one single healers oGCD would sure be handy in some fights.
And as previously said, I'm not sure that in a team with two healers, a RDM AoE heal would happen anyway. In an emergency situation perhaps, but that should not be the basis of support. See how Red Mages currently struggle outside of prog. Healing and raising is a thing, support should be another.

If the only point at which a party wholly needs a second healer is for infrequent, scheduled periods of damage each no less than two GCDs apart... I don't see why you wouldn't trim the 2nd healer for a RDM.

And, if RDM could AoE heal, those situations would actually be pretty plentiful. We're not replacing the main healer, after all, and of the two healer's Abilities and Spells each, it's rare than more than 2 categories (MH-Abil, MH-Spells, OH-Abil, OH-Spells) are ever necessary to top a tank (back) off to survivable HP before or after a tankbuster. RDM + solo healer would already allow you, essentially, three of those categories. It's mostly burst AoE that would ever demand both healers' full action, and once RDM can precast+instant AoE for better than a Cure III...

Fair 'nuff.

That still leaves the option to give Vercure splash heals that suffer reduced potency, or have the target gain increased healing from all sources. Main point being that if some are going to argue for an oGCD "Vermedica" without getting the same line about "leaving healing to healers", then the least that could be done is making our existing heal effect situationally useful to the group instead given the hybridized nature of the classic Red Mage.

Idk. Agreed that we should have a real "oh shit" button though; Vercure is decent for self-sustain but only when we have the time and MP to cast it.

[Mansion]

Fair 'nuff.

That still leaves the option to give Vercure splash heals that suffer reduced potency, or have the target gain increased healing from all sources. Main point being that if some are going to argue for an oGCD "Vermedica" without getting the same line about "leaving healing to healers", then the least that could be done is making our existing heal effect situationally useful to the group instead given the hybridized nature of the classic Red Mage.

Idk. Agreed that we should have a real "oh shit" button though; Vercure is decent for self-sustain but only when we have the time and MP to cast it.

I think you're just putting a bit too much meaning in VerCure. Just take it as it is : a free Dual Cast when no target is available, a sustain for solo content and possibly an emergency button. That's already pretty strong in my opinion

Now having oGCDs with a healing effect, yeah why not if it does not eat on our DPS. But remember it's quite frequent that two healers already kind of step on each other's feet (a healer topping up a party while there is an earthly star or a regen, a single target heal on a tank that has an Excog etc.), and now we would be adding some kind of VerMedica that comes out of the blue. I think it's likely to be more painful to use it properly than a plain "healing received up" or "damage received down" buff.

Once again, "let the healing to healers" ; they have way more tools to do it efficiently, quickly, in their DPS "rotation", sometimes with benefit to their own job gauges.
For the benefit of the discussion, I don't think there is more to classic RDM in FFXIV than using both Black and White Magic. The rest is now FFXIV exclusive, and it works just fine that way. I don't want to bring in the "Godwin" point of FFXIV but look at Blue Mage, it's so classic-BLU that it made it virtually unplayable.

There are other ways to make RDM more support-oriented if it is the direction you want to go (and I'd be happy with a weaker overall pDPS RDM but strong support outside of prog runs)

[Sathona]

Vermilion Ultima!

no?

OK

[ADVSS]

Vermilion Ultima!

no?

OK

I think a finisher with an aoe burst, may be all i can think of whether it be verholy becomes an aoe, or verflare, or a new verultima, to fill that gap. its not that rdm is lacking much in utility to me at all, but yeah the mp burden is there when you play a dps that tries to healer. I dont want any nerfs to vercure or veraise, its fine, But maybe an aoe option for that 2 pronged finisher would be great for bursting adds. I get that the black/white gimmick is applied to make virtually the same move :different" but its still the same move to me
tl:dr - I agree with verultima

[Jonnycbad]

I'd rather not see RDM have a spell named "Verultima". Function wise, it's fine--an AoE Finisher, but call it something unique. Ardor for example? Or it could be that thang that Alisae does in 3.2, a big white circular energy slash, Chant du Cygne (since the name hasn't been used for Zwerchau).

How about a "Meditate" channeled oGCD stance for RDM called "Temper" (like the spell in FF1 that RDM could cast, and their unique spell in FFXI). While channeling it, your Black and White Mana increase by 3/3 every tick for 10 seconds. Something to do during downtime like Meditate/Meditation.