Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[WaterShield]

I don't give a hoot what people want to define to suit their agendas.

Per definition, the bare minimum is pulling one group at a time. You will complete the dungeon that way w/o issues.

Everything else is extra. Sure, extras are nice and us experienced players notice the lack of incoming damage and see that as encouragement to pull like ham, that does not mean that a tank that holds aggro one group at the time does not do his job. He does it suboptimally but he does the essentials. A.k.a. "bare minimum".

Group dynamics matter. Once 3 other people are brought into the equation... things change. Giving holy grail status to how badly someone can get away with playing is ridiculous. 3 other people's experiences are being impacted, by one person refusing to attempt to become average at their job.

[Crystal_Raven]

I don't give a hoot what people want to define to suit their agendas.

Per definition, the bare minimum is pulling one group at a time. You will complete the dungeon that way w/o issues.

Everything else is extra. Sure, extras are nice and us experienced players notice the lack of incoming damage and see that as encouragement to pull like ham, that does not mean that a tank that holds aggro one group at the time does not do his job. He does it suboptimally but he does the essentials. A.k.a. "bare minimum".

Good players won't give a hoot what you want to do, if you will pull one group at a time in level 70 content and the group wants to go fast you will be thrown out of that dungeon faster than you can blink. You as a tank aren't the ultimate god, you are a player. You are replaceable. If you as a tank refuse to do your job, you will be replaced by someone better.

[Granyala]

Group dynamics matter. Once 3 other people are brought into the equation... things change. Giving holy grail status to how badly someone can get away with playing is ridiculous. 3 other people's experiences are being impacted, by one person refusing to attempt to become average at their job.

The solution is clear then:
Beef up dungeons to a proper difficulty level and make trash mean more than an opportunity to massage the AoE button.

Funsies aside: people get ruffled feathers way too easily and make a big mess out of things that are essentially a non issue. Personally I would never kick a tank that pulls single file simply because I don't see the point. He will be in a new dungeon doing his thing way before we get a replacement. I reserve such drastic action for cases that actually necessitate it, like a tank going butthurt over a DPS pulling and refusing to continue the run.

[Moshimoshikami]

Stop lying to yourselves... "Bad player" or "Doesn't meet my expectation" is not in the list of the kick interface.

If you start a kick petiton because a tank pulls groups too small for your taste, it means you are lying when filling the kick request and that you are abusing the kick system, which is against TOS.
That kind of behaviour should not be tolerated by GM...

[WaterShield]

The solution is clear then:
Beef up dungeons to a proper difficulty level and make trash mean more than an opportunity to massage the AoE button.

Funsies aside: people get ruffled feathers way too easily and make a big mess out of things that are essentially a non issue. Personally I would never kick a tank that pulls single file simply because I don't see the point. He will be in a new dungeon doing his thing way before we get a replacement. I reserve such drastic action for cases that actually necessitate it, like a tank going butthurt over a DPS pulling and refusing to continue the run.

That is 100% correct. The reason people get upset about it, is due to how easy the endgame dungeons currently are. The average tank can handle this no problem. If endgame dungeons hit as hard as leveling dungeons, no one would be having this conversation.

Again, I'm not saying people should all immediately kick the second they see a small pull. I just assign greater weight to the overall groups desires than I do to one persons preference on pull size, when it's so easy for them to accommodate that wish of the groups.
If they are asked to pull bigger and become belligerent (refuse point blank to even try it) then they have earned that groups kick.

[Granyala]

If you as a tank refuse to do your job, you will be replaced by someone better.

If the group is lucky.
If not, they will stand there 5 minutes+ and wait or worst case: have to abort the run and requeue. >.<

Personally, I have yet to encounter a tank that doesn't pull like his arse was on fire. Myself included...

Stop lying to yourselves... "Bad player" or "Doesn't meet my expectation" is not in the list of the kick interface.

Uuh whether we like it or not, kicking is a majority decisions and people can kick for whatever reason they deem appropriate.
If the group doesn't like your nose, they can kick you for it if the majority agrees to do so.

In an ideal world, such a kick would never go through but you know as well as I do that many a player merely clicks the yes button w/o thinking.

[WaterShield]

Stop lying to yourselves... "Bad player" or "Doesn't meet my expectation" is not in the list of the kick interface.

If you start a kick petiton because a tank pulls groups too small for your taste, it means you are lying when filling the kick request and that you are abusing the kick system, which is against TOS.
That kind of behaviour should not be tolerated by GM...

It's called "difference in playstyle"

Why do you think is it ok for 1 person to be a detriment to the enjoyment of 3 other people?

[WaterShield]

If the group is lucky.
If not, they will stand there 5 minutes+ and wait or worst case: have to abort the run and requeue. >.<

Personally, I have yet to encounter a tank that doesn't pull like his arse was on fire. Myself included...


Uuh whether we like it or not, kicking is a majority decisions and people can kick for whatever reason they deem appropriate.
If the group doesn't like your nose, they can kick you for it if the majority agrees to do so.

In an ideal world, such a kick would never go through but you know as well as I do that many a player merely clicks the yes button w/o thinking.

Ehhhh I wouldn't go quite so far as to kick someone over how they look, that, is being petty. Of course if they don't say in chat that they are kicking for that reason, no one would ever know.

[Moshimoshikami]

It's called "difference in playstyle"

Why do you think is it ok for 1 person to be a detriment to the enjoyment of 3 other people?

Lol this is not in the list either and is worst...

If you don't want to meet people with different play styles, go play solo games and stop playing MMO.

[Granyala]

Ehhhh I wouldn't go quite so far as to kick someone over how they look, that, is being petty. Of course if they don't say in chat that they are kicking for that reason, no one would ever know.

Nor would I but I had friends get kicked because they did TOO MUCH damage. No, they didn't draw aggro.
Yeah people kick for the absurdest of reasons and most bystanders just nod off the kick w/o asking or even looking WHO gets kicked.

That's what I wanted to highlight with the rather extreme example.

Lol this is not in the list either and is worst...

Honey, I doubt any player that initiates a kick gives a crap about that list. Time to face reality.