Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[van_arn]

Didn’t say they couldn’t kick. I said in my experience most players don’t behave this way.

This is true; I'd say we need more kicks though. The fact that so many players can make it so far into the game without knowing the basics is partially the community's fault for permitting leeching.

[Physic]

This is true; I'd say we need more kicks though. The fact that so many players can make it so far into the game without knowing the basics is partially the community's fault for permitting leeching.

a tank is not leeching by doing small pulls, in fact he is probably working harder than he needs to. Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

[Hash_Browns]

a tank is not leeching by doing small pulls, in fact he is probably working harder than he needs to. Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

How have you gone from "small pulls > large pulls" to "Small pulls = harder working than big pulls."

[van_arn]

a tank is not leeching by doing small pulls, in fact he is probably working harder than he needs to. Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

A tank is absolutely leeching by not knowing the basics of pulling and cooldowns by ilvl 340 and being able to apply them in a multipull. That is something that can be learned at level 61 if the tank bought a skip potion. That is something a tank would be *encouraged* to learn at level 61.

If a kick only makes the odd man out hate other players, and doesn't cause any sort of self-reflection, then they earn every single kick that comes their way.

[Physic]

A tank is absolutely leeching by not knowing the basics of pulling and cooldowns by ilvl 340. That is something that can be learned at level 61 if the tank bought a skip potion. That is something a tank would be *encouraged* to learn at level 61.

no, there is no mechanic or guide in the game that says tanks should pull as many groups as they see. Pulling many groups is a meta that only exists as long as SE designs fights to support it. This why people tend to say except leveling dungeons, because you are less likely to be overgeared. At 61 pulling more than two groups will probably end with someone or everyone dead at minimum ilevel.

Getting level 61 requires beating a level 59 dungeon 2-3 times. And you dont even need to do a dungeon at all to be level 70. You can do HoH, which prioritizes small pulls or no pulls. You can do alliance raids, which seldom have extra monster pulls at all

And leeching means you are getting more than you are supposed to based on others. Its not leeching if you are working harder, and getting less for it. That is being ineffecient.

[van_arn]

no, there is no mechanic or guide in the game that says tanks should pull as many groups as they see. Pulling many groups is a meta that only exists as long as SE designs fights to support it. This why people tend to say except leveling dungeons, because you are less likely to be overgeared. At 61 pulling more than two groups will probably end with someone or everyone dead at minimum ilevel.

Getting level 61 requires beating a level 59 dungeon 2-3 times. And you dont even need to do a dungeon at all to be level 70. You can do HoH, which prioritizes small pulls or no pulls. You can do alliance raids, which seldom have extra monster pulls at all

And leeching means you are getting more than you are supposed to based on others. Its not leeching if you are working harder, and getting less for it. That is being ineffecient.

There's a mechanic and guide in every single dungeon you ever tank: your party.

If you skipped the dungeon process as tank via POTD/HOH, then you haven't done the tanktorial. My suggestion would be to start at Brayflox' longstop, and work your way up until you can handle a dungeon where you're no longer in over your head.

By "in over your head" I mean "are no longer a detriment to the party."

Because if a party determines you to be a detriment, they can and eventually will give you a boot. What's expected of a tank increases as you go further into the expansion.

If you want a cosmetic 70, though, POTD/HOH are great for that. But they don't teach you much you can actually use. They are a false sense of progression.

[Physic]

There's a mechanic and guide in every single dungeon you ever tank: your party.

If you skipped the dungeon process as tank via POTD/HOH, then you haven't done the tanktorial. My suggestion would be to start at Brayflox' longstop, and work your way up until you can handle a dungeon where you're no longer in over your head.

By "in over your head" I mean "are no longer a detriment to the party."

Because if a party determines you to be a detriment, they can and eventually will give you a boot. What's expected of a tank increases as you go further into the expansion.

If you want a cosmetic 70, though, POTD/HOH are great for that. But they don't teach you much you can actually use. They are a false sense of progression.

your party is a really crappy tutorial. Majority of players are not that good, and thier strategies are not consistent from group to group. The way you tank leveling up is pretty different than when you are over geared. Just like players arent always that skilled, people who give advice are often not that skilled. They are often wrong or dont understand the situation. The concept that the majority opinion is going to be the correct one is often false, and more based on feeling than analysis.

[van_arn]

your party is a really crappy tutorial. Majority of players are not that good, and thier strategies are not consistent from group to group. The way you tank leveling up is pretty different than when you are over geared. Just like players arent always that skilled, people who give advice are often not that skilled. They are often wrong or dont understand the situation. The concept that the majority opinion is going to be the correct one is often false, and more based on feeling than analysis.

Welcome to the liar's club phase of the tanktorial: you learn the strategies that are being used by the general public, experiment with these strategies, and adjust those strategies to fit your current party.

When you have a solid foundation you've built up during the expansion, then you can step into post-expansion content (such as The Burn) with a degree more confidence than you would fresh from HoH.

If a player can't do this, then they shouldn't be tanking anyway. By "this," I mean "adjusting to the current party."

Tanks are in demand, but they aren't special: I'm not going to hold onto someone clearly not suited to tanking because they're some magical unicorn. They fill the role of their job to the satisfaction of their party or, like any other role, they can be fired.

By the party. The party that outranks them.

[WaterShield]

no, there is no mechanic or guide in the game that says tanks should pull as many groups as they see. Pulling many groups is a meta that only exists as long as SE designs fights to support it. This why people tend to say except leveling dungeons, because you are less likely to be overgeared. At 61 pulling more than two groups will probably end with someone or everyone dead at minimum ilevel.

Getting level 61 requires beating a level 59 dungeon 2-3 times. And you dont even need to do a dungeon at all to be level 70. You can do HoH, which prioritizes small pulls or no pulls. You can do alliance raids, which seldom have extra monster pulls at all

And leeching means you are getting more than you are supposed to based on others. Its not leeching if you are working harder, and getting less for it. That is being ineffecient.

I laugh at someone who decides it's a good idea to level a tank via HOH or POTD.... they have the fastest queues out of anyone and would gain i-lvl and actual experience at their job by going into dungeons.

I fail to see how single pack pulls is working harder.... in any fashion.

[Mavrias]

Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

i think this is the root of a lot of peoples issue. they take kicks waaaay too personally. its not an attack on you as a player to be removed from a group.

when heavensward came out, i kicked so many dark knight players because of no cooldowns, losing hate, bad gear, etc. i didnt want to work with them playing like that.

nothing personal, just business.