Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Awha]

it was an example, the real rules of ride share was not the point.

the point is every one has to pay up front before getting a group, in time. Everyone pays extra time until the conflict occurs.
one guy wants to continue to play in a way that is consistent with design of the game
other guys want to play in a different way that is also consistent

why do the other guys get to choose to waste the other guy's initial investment, when no ones initial investment needs to be wasted?

what is fair about 3 people punishing one guy, simply because they disagree on how fast he should do his job?

Majority opinion is not necessarily the correct stance.

In hypotheticals rules do matter, since said rules have an impact on how one would react to the situation. Because fair is subjective only objective marker we can go by are the rules present in the situation. In aspect of fairness it does not add much to the conversation, since in my case going based off no established, and my stop would caused a delay for the other three people I would simply get off their stop and walk to my desired location since in that would net the largest postive outcome since in theory more people would be generally pleased.

Which sense of fairness is right? What marker could we use to determine that if no rules are present.

[Physic]

In hypotheticals rules do matter, since said rules have an impact on how one would react to the situation. Because fair is subjective only objective marker we can go by are the rules present in the situation. In aspect of fairness it does not add much to the conversation, since in my case going based off no established, and my stop would caused a delay for the other three people I would simply get off their stop and walk to my desired location since in that would net the largest postive outcome since in theory more people would be generally pleased.

why is it fair that you suffer for their benefit, even though you were using the service as advertised?

even if you yourself put the desires of the many, over your own rights, do you understand why that should be a choice, and not a requirement?

[Dualgunner]

why is it fair that you suffer for their benefit, even though you were using the service as advertised?

even if you yourself put the desires of the many, over your own rights, do you understand why that should be a choice, and not a requirement?

In either case, people are suffering for somebody else's benefit.

[Physic]

In either case, people are suffering for somebody else's benefit.

the difference is duty finder is gone into with the assumption that will pair you with random players of varying skill levels.

one group is operating under that assumption

the other group is expecting more than that, then punishing the other player if they dont meet their expectation.

[Hash_Browns]

the difference is duty finder is gone into with the assumption that will pair you with random players of varying skill levels.

one group is operating under that assumption

the other group is expecting more than that, then punishing the other player if they dont meet their expectation.

This is not how it works.
Expecting the tank to how his role if he queues up for a level 70 dungeon should be what's expected by all played.
Hell, I would expect that at level 50 & 60 content as well.

You can not treat everyone who enters the duty finder like they are a 3 yr old because it's the duty finder.

[Dualgunner]

the difference is duty finder is gone into with the assumption that will pair you with random players of varying skill levels.

one group is operating under that assumption

the other group is expecting more than that, then punishing the other player if they dont meet their expectation.

The poor performer is expecting the rest of the group to be skilled enough to carry them through content, punishing the other three players even if they do meet their expectations.

[Physic]

The poor performer is expecting the rest of the group to be skilled enough to carry them through content, punishing the other three players even if they do meet their expectations.

the duty finder sets the expectations to low.

Kicking is not supposed to be a means of enforcing skill checks. Roulettes are designed to pair people looking for specific dungeons with people who are experienced in said dungeons. That means newbs are likely to be paired with skilled players intentionally.

kicking someone gives them negative progress, continuing gives other slower progress. Even in the rare cases where single pulling is somehow more costly in time lost (its usually only going to be 5 minutes difference, vs a 10-30 minute loss for the kicked player, and if they are a tank the waiting for tank negates that) It is still the people who applied a higher burden on selection, knowing that regular duty finder was not made to be more specific.

if the design of duty finder was supposed to be anything goes, they would not penalize people for easily giving up on parties. They clearly expected people to try to work together.

[Awha]

why is it fair that you suffer for their benefit, even though you were using the service as advertised?

even if you yourself put the desires of the many, over your own rights, do you understand why that should be a choice, and not a requirement?

First off all this is why rules are important to hypotheticals, since you are asking me what I would view as fair, without the rules I am not certain what rights I am entitled to, or what I agreed upon entering the ride share service.

In my case I am not sure why I would be suffering if the driver was unable to get to my stop without causing a delay the reason for the delay could be anything causing a delay. Now what caused the delay would change up how I would view the situation, but either way without the rules of your example I cannot be certain what rights I am entitled to. In the end let us say I agree to the view that I was suffering, what makes my suffering more important to not even consider the suffering of the others? Cause it would be 4 people who are suffering verse the one. The three riders and the driver who now has to delay his pick up for another fare because I put my foot down and demanded that he makes my stop no matter what. See without rules to the situation how can we determine what is just in this situation.

If I go based off my view I would go with the path that nets the most good, which means that I am walking back to my stop. If we go based off yours others be damned. See without rules the situation does not look the favorable for the latter. Please understand I do wish to have a this discussion with you since your view does interest me, it is just hard for me to answer your questions without know the rules I agreed to upon entering into your example. Sort echos what is wrong with DF, while people may find it silly maybe they should take the time to list out what they view as difference of play style, and what is the minimum expectation of each role. Novice hall is a joke since the rules for a level 15 should not be the same as a level 70