Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[ElHeggunte]

I've been saying for years that this community has a terrible problem with mollycoddling subpar players instead of just being real with them. We need to stop being afraid to step on toes and hurt feelings, especially if the players in question are performing so poorly that they're an active detriment to the group's success. I guarantee a lot of "bad" players are only doing it wrong because no one has had the courage to tell them how they're screwing up and how to fix it.

Don't be a dick with your delivery, but do be blunt. Depending on what they're [not] doing, make sure they understand that it isn't just a friendly suggestion; it's something they need to fix immediately because it's not fair to the other ~3/7/23 players in the group to have to suffer through unnecessarily long clears and perfectly avoidable wipes all because of one person. They can then shape up so the rest of the group can stop failing or barring that, if they catch an attitude you can also show them how easy it is to catch a free ride on the Requeue Train where they can wait for another group that might not care about success.

[TroySoFab]

By design, a majority of content in this game is intended to be a faceroll. Anytime something outside of savage raids deviates from this, there is outrage and an eventual nerf. Steps of Faith has been brought up ad nauseam , but *cough cough* Steps of Faith *cough cough*

[fumofu]

By design, a majority of content in this game is intended to be a faceroll. Anytime something outside of savage raids deviates from this, there is outrage and an eventual nerf. Steps of Faith has been brought up ad nauseam , but *cough cough* Steps of Faith *cough cough*

I understand you'd like to make this game as hard as complex as EVE online, but unfortunately for you, FFXIV is a MMO for everyone, not just hardcore players. And MSQ progression duties really should be more on the easy side, rather than a serious challenge. Original Steps of Faith was a big mistake, that fortunately got fixed.

[ElHeggunte]

I understand you'd like to make this game as hard as complex as EVE online, but unfortunately for you, FFXIV is a MMO for everyone, not just hardcore players. And MSQ progression duties really should be more on the easy side, rather than a serious challenge.

Yes, it's a game mostly balanced towards the casual side of the scale to make it more accessible, but "easy" content shouldn't be balanced around the lowest common denominator either. At some point "git gud" is the only valid response to people fussing about difficulty.

Original Steps of Faith was a big mistake, that fortunately got fixed.

The only thing wrong with pre-nerf Steps was there was no way to expedite a reset when it became clear you weren't going to succeed.

[Cheremia]

I do not expect you to be a god.
I do not expect you to read guides.
I do not expect you to never get any damage
I do not expect you to never mess up anything.

But i do wonder why you do not Aoe on large pulls? Especially as a Bard? Why don't bards aoe?
I do expect you to learn by doing? Like, yo're new? Fine, i(or others) can tell you basic mechanics if they're important enough. Like, you don't have the fight fully down even if not first time? Fine???
BUT you keep dying to the same thing over and over and over and over?

I know you may be playing the game after a workday and are a little tired maybe. But are you sure playing in this state is enjoyable for you?

Games are there to be PLAYED. Not to do while paying more attention to something else in the meantime?
It's not that hard to pay a little attention... just... a TINY LITTLE BIT ATTENTION.


But what do i know, i and other people got called toxic raiders because we weren't responsible for wiping thundergod cid over 4 times and wondered what's going on and who needs help. Even though we just asked for people to pay a little attention.

[AnnaRosa]

I do not expect you to be a god.
I do not expect you to read guides.
I do not expect you to never get any damage
I do not expect you to never mess up anything.

But i do wonder why you do not Aoe on large pulls? Especially as a Bard? Why don't bards aoe?
I do expect you to learn by doing? Like, yo're new? Fine, i(or others) can tell you basic mechanics if they're important enough. Like, you don't have the fight fully down even if not first time? Fine???
BUT you keep dying to the same thing over and over and over and over?

I know you may be playing the game after a workday and are a little tired maybe. But are you sure playing in this state is enjoyable for you?

Games are there to be PLAYED. Not to do while paying more attention to something else in the meantime?
It's not that hard to pay a little attention... just... a TINY LITTLE BIT ATTENTION.


But what do i know, i and other people got called toxic raiders because we weren't responsible for wiping thundergod cid over 4 times and wondered what's going on and who needs help. Even though we just asked for people to pay a little attention.

If you get so easily upset on how other players conduct their roles is it enjoyable for you the game?

Is it ok to live that level of exaggerated concern on how other players decide to play their character roles/jobs?

And as a Bard will always aoe big pulls so not sure where this even come from.

I've seen a non-zero number of bards not use AoEs at all so that's likely where it's coming from. It's not a large number - maybe 5%, but it's enough to stick in people's minds. Granted, I don't think complaining about these people will accomplish much other than venting some frustration because they likely don't care.

And as an aside I'm sure they, like many others, don't really think about it until the conversation is brought up. We don't wake up and log in and think, "Damn those bards who don't use AoEs, I hate them."

That is the point can not tell you that will understand because it is beyond me that kind of concern on how other players play their character roles, for me doesn't make any sense.

However agree with you that is important to talk about it at a level it does not upset players or cause them fear mongering to try and continue to enjoy the game, not knowing their irl difficulties for not playing their character roles according your ideal procedures, or someone else ideal aka perfect procedures.

Important is not to discourage recently joined players or casual players to keep enjoying the game just cause a butt-hurt doesn't like the way they play it or lives obsessed with their playing.

Because standards everyone is self-entitled to have them and the same ideal aka perfect standards you have on how bard should be plaid others will state that aren't their ideal dps/tank/heal rotation and that will only cause confusion on the player.

The issue is a bard that doesn't use aoe in a group pull isn't playing their role. They aren't playing any role. A chocobo companion could fill their slot and it wouldn't make much difference.

When you can be replaced by a companion, you're not worth your place in the party and the only thing you should earn is a kick.

Well you can always address the player in a constructive way if you can't address in a constructive way you can always take some communication classes and improve your communication skills in game and out of game.

Instead of telling the player he or she is unwelcome or useless for example refer the aoe skill and how to use it but always keep in mind maybe the player had in the previous team other self-entitled and had to adjust his/her way of playing that role to match the perfect someone else self-entitled standard before.

To be completely honest with you during this four years there were two situations while playing in two different dungeons with the similar layout and number of mobs where other two players offered me advise on how to play one role ninja and even at that received two contradictory directions.

[hydralus]

If you get so easily upset on how other players conduct their roles is it enjoyable for you the game?

Is it ok to live that level of exaggerated concern on how other players decide to play their character roles/jobs?

And as a Bard will always aoe big pulls so not sure where this even come from.

I've seen a non-zero number of bards not use AoEs at all so that's likely where it's coming from. It's not a large number - maybe 5%, but it's enough to stick in people's minds. Granted, I don't think complaining about these people will accomplish much other than venting some frustration because they likely don't care.

And as an aside I'm sure they, like many others, don't really think about it until the conversation is brought up. We don't wake up and log in and think, "Damn those bards who don't use AoEs, I hate them."

[Alaray]

I understand you'd like to make this game as hard as complex as EVE online, but unfortunately for you, FFXIV is a MMO for everyone, not just hardcore players. And MSQ progression duties really should be more on the easy side, rather than a serious challenge. Original Steps of Faith was a big mistake, that fortunately got fixed.

Having some more complexity in the game in other non-raid areas, such as being punished if you don't, for example, use a defensive ability on a heavy hit in a dungeon... wouldn't be bad. Or even putting an enrage on a boss, even if it's long, so you can't just afk-solo it. Or sit on a Construct 7 attempt for 20+ minutes.

As it stands, as a tank in this example, I can pretty much survive and solo the second boss of Ghimlyt Dark. I don't feel that should be possible in situations where it's intended to be group content, as it means you can stand still and auto attack the boss and move out of an occasional AoE and win (And yes, I can take the stack marker on that fight alone). That's a bit far down the extreme side of easy-to-complete content, since you don't even have to play the videogame to win.

It'd be more interesting to have fights that'll actually punish you for mistakes, rather than being able to shrug off and ignore them the entire time. Doesn't have to be overly cryptically complicated or overly punishing, since there's other avenues for that, but at least requiring some... semblance of needing to play the game.

Though, maybe having a desire to play the game in dungeons is a little much to ask.

At least I can pull wall to wall and shrug it off to get it over with faster.

[DPZ2]

I've been saying for years that this community has a terrible problem with mollycoddling subpar players instead of just being real with them.
...
Don't be a dick with your delivery, but do be blunt. ...They can then shape up so the rest of the group can stop failing or barring that, if they catch an attitude you can also show them how easy it is to catch a free ride on the Requeue Train where they can wait for another group that might not care about success.

Define 'subpar players' in terms that don't involve a parser or references to main story content.

When a player gets frustrated and decides it's time to stop 'mollycoddling', "Don't be a dick with your delivery" gets thrown out the window of an airplane flying at 35,000 feet above a volcano.

If you're only complaining in reference to optional content -- well that's fine. It's optional.

And you should be sure to specify that's what you mean.

[Ilan]

Define 'subpar players' in terms that don't involve a parser or references to main story content.

When a player gets frustrated and decides it's time to stop 'mollycoddling', "Don't be a dick with your delivery" gets thrown out the window of an airplane flying at 35,000 feet above a volcano.

If you're only complaining in reference to optional content -- well that's fine. It's optional.

And you should be sure to specify that's what you mean.

Subpar players: Players that are not new anymore and don't know the basics of their job or can't do the easiest mechanics. You don't need to parse to see if someone has no clue what he/she is doing. Want an example? There you go: Two RDM in a dungeon, tank pulls normal and only one of them uses scatter. The one that doesn't use scatter is a subpar player because he/she doesn't know the basics of his/her class.