Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[Kalise]

The guides don't point to only the '1%s'/hardcores. The guides aren't about striving to the top - it's about guiding a player who wishes to learn more about their class learn more and if they want to the guide supplies even more copious knowledge. The guides and discords supply basic knowledge of rotations as well. You take that knowledge and you can apply it to whatever level of play you want.

The game itself doesn't believe everyone will be striving towards the top. SE knows this. There exists tooltips upon each ability and every ability - that's not zero information. I was casual before I started raiding and I soley relied on those tooltips in order to create a basic rotation for myself without researching outside of the game. And as you said that's ok. But whether they should or shouldn't have to look up a guide is completely subjective. The tooltips are there to help people formulate their own rotations as a casual.

Most guides (In fact, all guides I've come across) are entirely focused on end-game raiding.

The "Basic knowledge of rotations" I often actually had to look up what skills they were even talking about because they wouldn't even mention the actual name of the skill (Either using an abbreviation or just the ability icon) as well as they often provide multiple different rotations for different team compositions or buffs that are active.

Which aren't exactly the most simple thing if you're brand new and suddenly are being told 3+ different rotations.

As far as tooltips go?

They aren't going to tell you anything worthwhile.

Tooltips are why we get Ice Mages.

Tooltips are why we get DRK's running around without Darkside active.

(Since they read "Can't regenerate MP" on DS/AF and think it's a bad thing)

Tooltips lead a number of BLM's to try spamming Flare at level 50 when they unlock it (Since the tooltip says it does more damage than Fire I or Fire III, so I should just spam it right?)

Even with tooltips, I've had to personally do the math about many jobs rotations, factoring in cast time, potency, re-use, ability to weave, damage per resource etc. None of this was presented in the actual tooltip. Nowhere in the tooltip does it say "Upheaval is better damage per Beast Gauge than Fell Cleave as long as you're above 60% health"

This is no information.

This is like that time I had to do a physics exam and literally hadn't been taught anything by my teacher at that point. I was handed a sheet with a bunch of formulae on but it didn't help because I didn't have the fundamental understanding of how and when to use them.

[Selova]

snip.

I dont think it's only just the WoW community, i think it's a combination of things. I think it's people that are new to the MMO genre and people that are used to certain traditional play styles in MMOs.

I've literally seen people call people that use dps stance on tanks in endgame bad tanks because they have it stuck in their mind that if you're trying to push your damage as a tank that you're somehow not fulfilling your role.

There aren't many other MMOs that follow the Tank-Healer-Dps formula where the tanks are designed to push their damage and people who are either new or coming from other MMOs that are used to traditional support roles for some reason just can't accept that that's how it works in FFXIV.


It would make the community a better place if newer players coming over were more open to understanding that just because things are one way in other MMOs doesnt mean things are the same in FFXIV.

[hydralus]

Even with tooltips, I've had to personally do the math about many jobs rotations, factoring in cast time, potency, re-use, ability to weave, damage per resource etc. None of this was presented in the actual tooltip. Nowhere in the tooltip does it say "Upheaval is better damage per Beast Gauge than Fell Cleave as long as you're above 60% health"

This is no information.

But it gives you all the information, no? It's 300 potency and decreases as health decreases. It costs 20 beast gauge. Fell cleave, meanwhile, costs 50 for 520. A passive glance says that at full HP it's far superior (For less than half the gauge cost you're doing more than half the potency, and with HP increasing abilities even moreso). It's also a simple matter of taking the potency-per-gauge for fell cleave (10.4 assuming 520/50) and multiply that by the upheaval gauge cost (10.4x20=208) so you want at least 208 potency to match fell cleave damage so without using any health-boost skills you'd want above 70% health (208/300 gives me 69.3% or so).

The only issue I have is that it doesn't say whether it's a clear-cut percentage scaling for the potency vs health (does that mean it's near 0 potency at 1 health, for example. Doubtful.) but you can at the very least extrapolate that you're safe to use it above 70% (or perhaps if the math works differently in-game above 60% as you said) and you definitely want to use it at full health. It's a far cry from 'no information', though.

And a BLM that tries spamming flare (I'm saying 'tries' because you're going to have a rough time spamming a skill that is going to use all your MP) and will be sorely disappointed (using 'all' MP, which you can readily see when you look at the skill itself, you don't even need to look at the tooltip). if they've done that once and haven't learned better then there's something a bit off. You may be able to make the argument about people who may spam fire III because 'higher potency = better' but they'd have to disregard the clear comboing with fire I and that the cast time itself is a literal DPS loss on its own if spammed (not even accounting for MP usage).

Could it be made more clear-cut? Probably. All of the info is there, though. For anything that may be missing, there are striking dummies. 5 minutes alone with a striking dummy while reading your tooltips should give you at LEAST a basic understanding of what you're supposed to be doing.

[ElHeggunte]

I've been saying for years that this community has a terrible problem with mollycoddling subpar players instead of just being real with them. We need to stop being afraid to step on toes and hurt feelings, especially if the players in question are performing so poorly that they're an active detriment to the group's success. I guarantee a lot of "bad" players are only doing it wrong because no one has had the courage to tell them how they're screwing up and how to fix it.

Don't be a dick with your delivery, but do be blunt. Depending on what they're [not] doing, make sure they understand that it isn't just a friendly suggestion; it's something they need to fix immediately because it's not fair to the other ~3/7/23 players in the group to have to suffer through unnecessarily long clears and perfectly avoidable wipes all because of one person. They can then shape up so the rest of the group can stop failing or barring that, if they catch an attitude you can also show them how easy it is to catch a free ride on the Requeue Train where they can wait for another group that might not care about success.

[TroySoFab]

By design, a majority of content in this game is intended to be a faceroll. Anytime something outside of savage raids deviates from this, there is outrage and an eventual nerf. Steps of Faith has been brought up ad nauseam , but *cough cough* Steps of Faith *cough cough*

[Kacho_Nacho]

It's not that standards are shunned its how you present it, the same way as you created this thread, comes off pompous and arrogant and belittling. gotta learn communication skills and most people in the game will be successful from my experience.

This is the answer, OP. What you have to understand is that a lot of players have had very bad experiences with "hard-core" players. Please note the quotes.

I'm not talking about the true cutting edge players. I have found those players helpful and courteous.

I personally believe it's the WoW community that has infected our community with their ways of playing, mostly the european wow community that has infected their way of gaming.
Since the WoW community has also become a majority of the playerbase they kinda dictate certain behavior to be deemed as acceptable. Just look at how the novice networks are on many non legacy servers / new data centers pay attention to the servers and how that mindset is.
If this was FFXI you would get filtered out really quick but thanks to the duty finder players can get away with certain gameplay and behavior because duty finder is among the most impersonal things in this game. You can afford to play solo for a looooong time.

This too.

Now, I know this can be frustrating players who want a higher caliber player. And it is also ridiculous how far the forums will go to defend bad players who should know better.

All I can advise is to roll your eyes, accept it, and be willing to teach players who want to be better. Ignore the players who upset you.

You will be happier.

In the same vein, is anyone here willing to set up a multi-server linkshell to teach us players who want to learn but cannot find anyone willing to answer questions in game?

Most guides (In fact, all guides I've come across) are entirely focused on end-game raiding.

The "Basic knowledge of rotations" I often actually had to look up what skills they were even talking about because they wouldn't even mention the actual name of the skill (Either using an abbreviation or just the ability icon) as well as they often provide multiple different rotations for different team compositions or buffs that are active.

Which aren't exactly the most simple thing if you're brand new and suddenly are being told 3+ different rotations.

As far as tooltips go?

They aren't going to tell you anything worthwhile.

Tooltips are why we get Ice Mages.

Tooltips are why we get DRK's running around without Darkside active.

(Since they read "Can't regenerate MP" on DS/AF and think it's a bad thing)

Tooltips lead a number of BLM's to try spamming Flare at level 50 when they unlock it (Since the tooltip says it does more damage than Fire I or Fire III, so I should just spam it right?)

Even with tooltips, I've had to personally do the math about many jobs rotations, factoring in cast time, potency, re-use, ability to weave, damage per resource etc. None of this was presented in the actual tooltip. Nowhere in the tooltip does it say "Upheaval is better damage per Beast Gauge than Fell Cleave as long as you're above 60% health"

This is no information.

This is like that time I had to do a physics exam and literally hadn't been taught anything by my teacher at that point. I was handed a sheet with a bunch of formulae on but it didn't help because I didn't have the fundamental understanding of how and when to use them.

Agreed. I apologize that I cannot remember the icons of my abilities and rotations posted on websites. It's all way above me.

I feel exactly how Kalise feels. It happened to me twice when I took calculus. I was given a textbook and expected to automatically know calculus.

Meanwhile, my high school math just taught me basic algebra. You can imagine how lost I was.

[Kleeya]

People expecting everyone to go look at some lengthy guides and tutorials on the net, sometimes in a foreign language, or reading the ig tutorials, when most of the players are like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4utATCiTfi0 XD

[fumofu]

By design, a majority of content in this game is intended to be a faceroll. Anytime something outside of savage raids deviates from this, there is outrage and an eventual nerf. Steps of Faith has been brought up ad nauseam , but *cough cough* Steps of Faith *cough cough*

I understand you'd like to make this game as hard as complex as EVE online, but unfortunately for you, FFXIV is a MMO for everyone, not just hardcore players. And MSQ progression duties really should be more on the easy side, rather than a serious challenge. Original Steps of Faith was a big mistake, that fortunately got fixed.

[ElHeggunte]

I understand you'd like to make this game as hard as complex as EVE online, but unfortunately for you, FFXIV is a MMO for everyone, not just hardcore players. And MSQ progression duties really should be more on the easy side, rather than a serious challenge.

Yes, it's a game mostly balanced towards the casual side of the scale to make it more accessible, but "easy" content shouldn't be balanced around the lowest common denominator either. At some point "git gud" is the only valid response to people fussing about difficulty.

Original Steps of Faith was a big mistake, that fortunately got fixed.

The only thing wrong with pre-nerf Steps was there was no way to expedite a reset when it became clear you weren't going to succeed.

[Krotoan]

Those same people, if you criticize their actions because they don't understand basic game mechanics at pretty high levels if not max level itself, respond with insults, toxicity, "you don't pay my sub", "i'm new so i'm entitled to wiping raids because im learning", "i play how i want to", "you don't control my account" and so on.

And if you don't say anything to them, you get called a toxic elitist for choosing not to help them.

I have a feeling your criticisms are less than tactful. Just a feeling.
"i'm new so i'm entitled to wiping raids because im learning"?

I've never heard this, just "sorry I'm new".

If someone in a DF gives attitude or balks at trying to improve in the face of tactful, helpful criticism.. I leave or finish despite them. It's really not a huge deal. You can't control others, you can just do your best and offer helpful advice.