Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[reivaxe]

Charr are 13% of total played characters. Orcs something like 7%, which is not bad given its number of races. WoW has pretty high diversity of races, and simply because a race is not "pretty" does not mean it is bestial or monstrous.

Not sure why you're listing numbers lol
GW2 has a beautifully even spread of races played.

As for WoW by "pretty" I simply mean conventional human like appearance. I'd argue that most anything outside of the top 3 falls into some kinda monster like trope be it zombies or Deamonic Satyr or Minotaurs or what have you.

We won't really know until we see the active % of players who comprise Hrothgar. Until then the more accurate assessment is that the devs are taking a risk, with uncertain payoffs. I'd say based on existing patterns of what WoW (and other MMO) players play, I don't foresee them being particularly more common than Roegadyn.

1- Again, there will NEVER be a "pay off" to having a new race added outside of giving players more options to express themselves. Like lets say 60k people convert their characters to Viera on day one and stick to it. At MAYBE $10 a pop (cause they do give you at least 1 free potion and may very well have a discount for promotion of ShB) that's 600k. That's 2-3 years of work making something that makes creating new gear and emotes and jobs harder for 600k when they have made many more mills on the backs far easier things to make like mounts or glams or dances on the mog station. There is no monetary "pay off" for them which is why they call this their last race addition ... so if you're trying to speak for them as a company there's your answer to how profitable any of this would be. If new races paid off in any monetary gains I'm sure they wouldn't be saying this.

2- The most accurate assessment of all of this is that they are trying to offer players better/ more visual diversity and freedom in how they express themselves. For example, some people bring up how they don't think the Viera will be very popular because the tall female races are the least played in this game. Truth of the matter is that Femroe aren't played because we're muscular with narrow hips and Unconventional faces (basically we look like sports instructors as I see it. I'm 100% sure femroe would be more played if they had a better design) and female elezen aren't played because they're strangely animated with off putting proportions and suffer from sameface. Clearly there's room for improvement and that's where this tall beautiful race of females with models that already look better and more uptodate than any other comes in. Same with Au ra. Male Elezen suffered the same problems and SE released another/ better/ more visually unique option for those who want to be tall, attractive, elegant men and that option became more popular than the old one. The Hrothgar are the same situation and I personally expect them to end up between Roebro and Scale boi numbers. They offer a better take on more than 1 thing actually. A Better proportioned and up to date large male frame as well as more beastly options for those who want anthros. Many of the people I've seen jumping on the Hrothgar ship are Catbois who settled for the most cat man thing they could get at the time or Scalely bois who picked the most beastly thing they could.

3- Seeing that the whole point to this is to give the game more visual diversity the Hrothgar have already been a success. They're gonna be the most unique race in this game, fill a hole in the line up and like Yoshi said "We think that an MMO is a game that people with different perspectives can play it worldwide. Final Fantasy games are games that have beautiful characters, but in the same fashion as in FFX, there are races that look rather stronger. I always use “Guin Saga” as an example. Since we are making a fantasy game, we wanted to give spotlight to that aspect, as well. We thought: “Why add more handsome races… even if we do, the biggest difference will be the ears…” "

I also don't get your comment about "weeb culture". It's a Japanese game but it already offers options for people who don't want to play anything "weeb". It's also not the case that JP games don't add bestial characters.

I'm referring to the culture of the game aka the players, not the game itself

So they want to make people "happy". Why? What's the end goal here from the business's perspective? It's odd, because when it comes to Hrothgar you seem to claim they're justified in doing it to try capture WoW refugees. Yet when it comes to Viera, it's just to "make people happy". Seems awfully convenient, to me.

Nope, I said that the Hrothgar are to build the upon the visual diversity with in the line of races and fill a hole in it. By NO MEANS do I think someone's gonna pick up this game now because of playable Hrothgar or Viera, people play for the content. So WoW refugees have been coming over regardless because of the game already. But like he said, Hrothgar = more options to express a range of unique characters for players in this fantasy MMO setting. The team has been wanting to do it, the fans have requested it since 4.0 gave us wolf headed men and it benefits players new and old to have these options.

Viera ARE to make people happy to. He has flat out said that he felt like he HAD to add them because of the demand. Like they said, this is it for additions as far as we know so if we got no Viera now then the people who have been wanting them since HW are S-O-L. They don't actually offer a noticeably unique option, they're even described as looking like Humans and Elezen in their lore post. But they do offer a 3rd attempt at making a tall female race seeing how unpopular the current 2 are so there's that.

[MrKimper]

Stop. I never said they didn't exist in XII. That was when they were mentioned. they didn't exist in the lore before XII is my meaning, you can Infer them existing all you want but they did not have a single mention before XII, as a collary they didn't physically exist in XII anyway, we even went into their Great Wood, which would have a been a wonderful time to have gotten a glimpse at the Wood Warders, but nope, just women all through.

There's literally only one game before XII where your statement holds up, Advance, which is LITERALLY not the real ivallice and Tactics had it's entire canon RETCONNED by XII's release. So again my issue is you claiming this is some iron clad lore that's been in place since the beginning. Everything else is just your personal opinion afterwards really.

[Lauront]

@Melichoir done any edits like that for male Au Ra?

[MrKimper]

snip

Man lalafells with...shoulders and..hips are..kinda off putting. I guess they're sort of like the Horvin?

[Melichoir]

Don't try to pass your personal opinion as a fact then, saying that "they need fixing" because "they are absolutely bad". It ain't so. Anyway, sorry for the off topic yall, it is tiring sometimes to always be the singled out race. Carry on

It is factual that there are issues with the models when it comes to animations and emotes where the animation distorts the model in noticeably bad ways. Point to what I said about lalafells and how they clip themselves with certain emotes, similar can be said with the elezen models. From a pure design perspective, it has to do with the proportions used that create some wierd issues. That is objective. Beyond that, their body design is semi-unnappealing do to a proportions issue. It's the uncanny valley issue. To similar to actual humans to be a caricature, but not similar enough that it's believable. That issue registers on a subconscious level for a lot of people.

Beyond that, yeah, Im voicing my thoughts, and my thoughts are based on what I can observe and what I know. You can like them for what they are. More power to you, but please dont tell me the character models dont have problems that should be addressed. They do, and like lalafells its tied a bit into its design.

@Melichoir done any edits like that for male Au Ra?

Not really. I havent actually taken an extremely close look at the AuRa models. From a quick glance (like anything) they look fine. Did you have something you had issues with in particular with the model?

Man lalafells with...shoulders and..hips are..kinda off putting. I guess they're sort of like the Horvin?

Lalafell models overall are kinda weird to look at if you think about it. They have to walk with stiff locked joints, arms and legs are tubes, shoulders that are more narrow that the base of the ribcage, and disproportionately large heads compared to other races. The design is kinda strange. I think it is kinda the "It works on paper, but not 3D" designs of ff. I think if htey pushed it a bit more cartoonish and distorted the proportions more, it may work better. If not, to rectify pushing it in the other direction fixes atleast the clipping issues.

Not sure what Horvin are though. Wheres that from?

[Senn]

...

Are you talking about grimoire of the rift? I thought I read somewhere that the green mage viera in that game spoke of her father. Although whether her father was a male viera or a different race is unknown.
There was also a screenshot floating around where, on one particular mission, a female viera said she needed to go home back to her father. Whether her father is of another race or a male viera is also unknown.
I could be getting my games mixed up too, so don't take my word for it.

The most important thing, however, is that it has been confirmed there are male viera in FFXIV. https://i.redd.it/xp56327welr21.png
Claiming there were no male viera, and pointing at the older games, does not change the fact that male viera do exist in FFXIV.

Anyway, Beki, by your own admission, SE has updated their lore in the past

And before you *again* cite the Seeker of the Sun lore, it has been updated to include the fact males do adventure, it just adds they tend to lose their harems when they do (If they're a Nuhn).

I don't see any harm in updating the lore once again if SE decides to make male viera models. If the story progresses in such a way where more male viera decide to wander out of the wood, I don't see a problem with an organic change in lore like that. The story is constantly changing, and new conflicts arise. Also, as people mentioned before, the WoL is a character that breaks norms.

[Lauront]

Not really. I havent actually taken an extremely close look at the AuRa models. From a quick glance (like anything) they look fine. Did you have something you had issues with in particular with the model?

I'm referring to the whole "birthing hips" trope that plagues them, particularly in some kinds of armour. It's less evident when you strip them down and it's down to their leg posture. I'll see if I have some screenies tomorrow.

[WhiteArchmage]

Are you talking about grimoire of the rift? I thought I read somewhere that the green mage viera in that game spoke of her father. Although whether her father was a male viera or a different race is unknown.
There was also a screenshot floating around where, on one particular mission, a female viera said she needed to go home back to her father. Whether her father is of another race or a male viera is also unknown.
I could be getting my games mixed up too, so don't take my word for it.

I believe MrKimper is talking about the first Advance game, where the whole world is a "Dream Ivalice" created by Marche and co. Grimoire of the Rift is also known as A2 (not Actually Advance because it's on the DS instead of the GBA). There are a few holes in that game that are excused by the fact that...it's not the real Ivalice... which also makes me not understand Beki's point, I mean, Tactics is the first Ivalice game by release date, XII chronologically, and even they acknowledge male Viera existed in the lore of XII (I've mentioned before in this very thread that we only see a small part of Golmore, and the part we do see can be assumed to be under the control of Eruyt Village, thanks to the Lente's Tear item that Jote gives the party to traverse the Wood).

Which, again, has no bearing in XIV lore since these are not the Viera from XII.

[MrKimper]

I'm referring to the whole "birthing hips" trope that plagues them, particularly in some kinds of armour. It's less evident when you strip them down and it's down to their leg posture. I'll see if I have some screenies tomorrow.

The pants for the WAR AF1 pretty much shows the problem. Could crush watermelons beneath them.

Are you talking about grimoire of the rift?

Nah Rift came out after XII and is set in the same universe so male viera exist, what baki is talking about is Advance the "prequel" to rift where Male viera aren't shown or referenced at all (Similar to female Bangaa), however that world is confirmed to not be Ivalice but a fantasy world created by Mewt. Tactics the first game in the ivalice line came out in 1997, Advance came out in 2003, XII in 2006, A2 in 2007 and Revenant wings in 2007 as well, everything except Advance takes place in Ivalice at varying time points.

Tactics was retconned to share a history and timeline with XII, so technically the only game that we can say for slight certain that male viera don't exist are Advance, but again Advance is in this weird place where Mewt's ivalice isn't the true Ivalice and a lot of the things in advance either don't come up in real Ivalice or were simply retconned/changed.

For example several espers show up as "Totema" in advance but this is their only appearance as such as Totema are never used again as a mechanic/story element in any of the further ivalice games, Totema are pretty much replaced with the concepts of espers and have their whole backstory redone to sort of mesh with the Lucavi concept from tactics.

So yeah TL;DR, the only game that for sure has no male viera even referenced is Advance, everything else takes place in a world where they for sure exist. Discounting Vagrant stories of course.

[MrKimper]

Not sure what Horvin are though. Wheres that from?

https://gbf.wiki/Category:Harvin_Characters meant harvin my b.