Why Does A Fierce Race Of Female Warriors...

[kamenkuro]

I'm not projecting. And you just "tried it on", you never bought the costume. That's hardly the same thing as buying said outfit, wearing it openly, and actually supporting the idea. I remember your first comments when the whole male bunny suit thing was a huge talk topic and your less than savory opinions on it. Your thinly veiled dislike for men wearing bunny suits isn't as well hidden as you'd like to think, nor is your perspective that every guy who wears them deserves to be treated like a joke.

We all collectively know why the male bunny outfit was implemented, we all collectively know the types of people that wanted it implemented.

Sorry if I can read between the lines because you're that obvious.

I don't think you actually were paying attention to what I said. I was never against the outfit. I doubt you'll get the irony in a bunch of people demanding a game appeal to their libido. That entire thread, after I said what I wanted I played a bit. People take stuff like that way too seriously. It's amusing. I'm sorry you think you're being clever. I was not at all being serious. Just because you think you got a read on someone doesn't mean it's true. Actually making assumptions like that is actually a clear sign you have problems properly understanding folks. If someone says something and what you get out of it is the exact opposite, then you might have to try to look into figuring out why you can't understand people.

[xxvaynxx]

Hi Jovan. I think you misunderstood what I was saying with my comment. I meant, female players should be allowed to dress their character however they want.

I'm a sensitive new age guy, you know.

And they can though? I really don't see what you're trying to say. FFXIV gives you a ton's of options.

If you're trying to say Female players wouldn't like playing Viera because their starter outfit is revealing, I won't say all but I can say most won't give a crap.
Just like how most Male players won't care if a Male Viera or Hrothgar Starter was Topless and had a Loincloth.

Most females players that I know actually like dressing sexy but a lot of people like to think they don't and want to be in full plated armor with no skin what so ever.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Hi Jovan. I think you misunderstood what I was saying with my comment. I meant, female players should be allowed to dress their character however they want.

I'm a sensitive new age guy, you know.



Because different people are different?

You think I'm offended by beautiful women? Hahahahahaha! I think you aimed for a polar bear and hit a penguin there.



You should have read the thread. Your answers have already been brought but thanks for the link! I love stuff like this.

I wasn't planning on wearing the outfit. People aren't ready for the tidal wave of lalafell lust which would ensue.

Most female players I play with (read, my FC) play skimpily dressed male miqo's. and the other half play skimpily dressed female miqo's

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't think you actually were paying attention to what I said. I was never against the outfit. I doubt you'll get the irony in a bunch of people demanding a game appeal to their libido. That entire thread, after I said what I wanted I played a bit. People take stuff like that way too seriously. It's amusing. I'm sorry you think you're being clever. I was not at all being serious. Just because you think you got a read on someone doesn't mean it's true. Actually making assumptions like that is actually a clear sign you have problems properly understanding folks. If someone says something and what you get out of it is the exact opposite, then you might have to try to look into figuring out why you can't understand people.

I remember very clearly what your first opening comments were about and how not a whole lot of people we're taking it as a joke. So, say what you like to try and cover yourself that "it was all just a big joke" or "I wasn't being serious at the time". That's what people always say as a failsafe when they're backed into a corner after someone points out their questionable ethics. I can understand people just fine.

If you want to continue laughing at people that are comfortable in their own skin simply because you aren't and find it as a personal joke, making assumptions about them, continue to do so, just stop being surprised when people call you out for it.

There are more facets to people than what you come up with based on what little you see of them.

Then, make better first impressions. You have only yourself to blame on that. You weren't exactly a great person either in the thread when someone suggested to have a male NPC wearing the outfit in GS.

And there's more projection.

Can't really project something you openly said yourself and how anyone caught wearing it deserves to be laughed at for it because you feel it's a complete joke despite knowing how others wouldn't view it as a joke themselves. I have no problem with the outfit and no one deserves to be laughed at for wearing something that they want to wear in the game. I don't care if you and your friend laugh at other, that has no bearing when you're out with complete strangers.

Really, it shows your lack of understanding others honestly.

Anyways, I won't derail the thread any further with your nonsense.

[Joven]

Hi Jovan. I think you misunderstood what I was saying with my comment. I meant, female players should be allowed to dress their character however they want.

You can dress your character however you want. No-one is denying you that option just because of skimpy starter gear.

[kamenkuro]

I remember very clearly what your first opening comments were about and how not a whole lot of people we're taking it as a joke. So, say what you like to try and cover yourself that "it was all just a big joke" or "I wasn't being serious at the time". That's what people always say as a failsafe when they're backed into a corner after someone points out their questionable ethics. I can understand people just fine.

If you want to continue laughing at people that are comfortable in their own skin simply because you aren't and find it as a personal joke, making assumptions about them, continue to do so, just stop being surprised when people call you out for it.

Anyways, I won't derail the thread any further with your nonsense.

The first thing I said in that thread was pretty much ignored. You just noticed me when I started having my fun. For someone that tries to "read between the lines" you sure do pick and choose what you take at face value. And then totally ignore anything else if you don't like it. There are more facets to people than what you come up with based on what little you see of them.

And there's more projection. I feel like that's your issue and you're trying to spread it to other folks. I grew up in a really nice house, mom knew how to eat right and look good, dad is a body builder. So I developed a love for that sort of stuff and I'm mad handsome, so no lack of confidence here. Honestly I was having fun in that thread. It's fun poking at folks that take trivial things far too seriously.

Anyhow, you're the one that brought up the other thread. I mentioned it in tandem with this thread.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I hope that you don't take any offense with this, but uh.....female players don't need you to be offended or speak for them. I'm pretty sure we can speak for ourselves about this.

No offense taken.

It is such a narrow line today, isn't it? If you speak out, you are reminded that you shouldn't speak for others; but, if you don't speak out, you are part of the problem.

You can dress your character however you want. No-one is denying you that option just because of skimpy starter gear.

I know that.

And they can though? I really don't see what you're trying to say. FFXIV gives you a ton's of options.

If you're trying to say Female players wouldn't like playing Viera because their starter outfit is revealing, I won't say all but I can say most won't give a crap.
Just like how most Male players won't care if a Male Viera or Hrothgar Starter was Topless and had a Loincloth.

Most females players that I know actually like dressing sexy but a lot of people like to think they don't and want to be in full plated armor with no skin what so ever.

No, that wasn't what I was saying. I was letting S.E. know that I initially thought the starter gear was over the line. I have no clue one way or another if people would be turned off from playing viera because of it.

As far as women liking sexy outfits, just like everything else people have different things they like.

Most female players I play with (read, my FC) play skimpily dressed male miqo's. and the other half play skimpily dressed female miqo's

That's cool. Um, what happens when a fly gets loose in the FC house?

Goodnight everyone. Fibro-fog is hitting and I need to bow out.

[Sigma-Astra]

No offense taken.

It is such a narrow line today, isn't it? If you speak out, you are reminded that you shouldn't speak for others; but, if you don't speak out, you are part of the problem.

Well, it's fine to speak out about something that concerns you. But, say it in that way directly and don't try to lump an entire group of people into it just so it can seem like you have a larger point is what I was getting at, I guess.

It just makes the person look really arrogant, I think, and like you're trying to be a spokesperson for them. As if these groups of people need one entity to say what is collectively on their minds, and that they know better what to say than the group actually does.

[Joven]

Thanks! And no prob on motivation/support, go kick butt!

I actually figure Nanamo's fine tbh lol. Her situation's limiting, but I think it matters that how she deals with her situation is a choice and understood as such. If she despaired and decided to live day-by-day in excess while ignoring her people, that would make her tragic. Maybe even a tragic villain, depending. She could also have been tragic if she was so ignorant and helpless she remained a passive and childlike puppet incapable of surviving independently, particularly if it was shown in-story that she could not manage outside a gilded cage. As is, she fights her situation and develops herself into a capable ruler in her own right. None of the three possibilities demonstrate lack of agency/choice on a technical, storytelling level. It's just that some would be shown as personally weak and some are personally strong. People are like that. Figure everyone regardless of gender has the capacity to be personally strong or weak, but that doesn't make any ineffective as characters.

One way to think of it is you could have a three different characters trapped in featureless rooms by themselves and unable to escape, but what they choose to do with themselves even while being stuck like that is still a choice that says something about them. When I talk about agency, I just mean that there's a reason that can be understood in human terms. Genre conventions, humor, and parody are fine reasons too but there are still ways those reasons can work or fall flat.

If Nanamo decided to live in spendor due to her circumstances while her people suffered I'd call her a b***h not tragic. Fortunately she is exerting what messure of control she has through Raubahn to change things. And it helps that she's just so darned adorable.

Yotsuyu comes to mind as someone who profited off of their situation. She tries to play the "woe is me" angle to garner sympathy, even at the end. I felt bad for what she went through, but instead of using that to become a stronger person she gave into hatred and spite. So at the end when she was complaining about her situation all I could think of was "you's a ho".

When it comes to the Viera, I file them mainly under genre conventions because FFXIV (and FF games as a whole) tend to run on rule of aesthetic/"it just looks good". Doesn't necessarily make sense and is generally applied pretty evenly across the board. If it was a more realistic game where you got more detailed characterization from what characters choose to put on their bodies in different places/situations, that might be subject to some criticism. Under the circumstances doesn't seem like a problem to me. The genre conventions here are consistent in how they suspend disbelief so don't necessarily need to bring up stuff about how warriors in hot climates wear less, even if that is true. FFXIV warriors wear bathingsuits in Coerthas.

I agree, there seems to be a lack of understanding in some peoples arguments I've seen where they can't distinguish between "this is a video game so I should be able to do what I want" and "what makes sense within the context of the world I'm in". Some argue that just because the devs allow certain, non world building items (like Cloud's bike or the upcoming Regalia) then everything is fair game for whatever. I guess that's just the nature of the beast.

Lol I am with you on there being more to fanservice than T&A, the cases I was referring to just happened to involve that kind of fanservice. Also, I think it's worth noting there's a difference between say, artistic nudes (even with conventionally sexy bodies) and fanservice imo. Posture, presentation, atmosphere, context, all that ties in. T&A is just the best shorthand I've got for "this character is pulling contortionist moves to show both off at the same time" lol.

LOL, I'm with you on that, unecessarily sexy posing is really hamfisting that kind of fanservice. Though to be honest it can serve to break a tense situation if you feel your story is getting too serious. Kill la Kill is a good example of that.

[Jaywalker]

If Nanamo decided to live in spendor due to her circumstances while her people suffered I'd call her a b***h not tragic.

I think it depends a bit on circumstances. Could full well turn tragic bitch haha, but I think the tragic part comes from how much she cares and whether her behavior is because she legit is convinced she's incapable of doing anything to help and how she hit that point. If she doesn't care and is just unapologetically going "let them eat cake" that's full-villain to me. I was thinking cares-but-learned-helplessness. Agreed as she actually is Nanamo is adorable and heroic tho!

Yotsuyu I think is tragic too, def tragic villain. Or tragic bitch, both work.

Haven't seen Kill la Kill but I get you! And agreed on the videogame fun versus worldbuilding context.