Healer identity in 5.0

[Hustensaft]

They did not blame it on shield healing alone. The current dichotomy limits the ways they can design healers in their minds. And they want to fix this and this is why they did not add a new healer.

If they believe the problem is pure vs. shield, then there is zero hope for improvement.

Plus that quote is pretty much only from MrHappy. All japanese interviews that mention pure vs. absorb is that it isn't as much of a distinction as MT vs. OT. Heal vs. Absorb is essentially only a way to do the same task

[Feidam]

If they believe the problem is pure vs. shield, then there is zero hope for improvement.

Plus that quote is pretty much only from MrHappy. All japanese interviews that mention pure vs. absorb is that it isn't as much of a distinction as MT vs. OT. Heal vs. Absorb is essentially only a way to do the same task

It is and it from Yoshida himself. So I do give it more credibility as he was specifically asked. Ultimately all we can do is wait until the changes are made. I just feel people are roasting them without even seeing the changes first.

[Fyce]

umm It’s the job of a healer to prevent the wipe by pressing that GCD. It’s what healers are there for. I see no problem with that.

That's not what I'm asking.
If you increase the healing requirements, you also increase the wipes caused by insufficient healing output. And those are the worst type of wipes.
In short, you want everyone to suffer more wipes to please a subset of the community who'd like to cast more Medicas and Cures. This is not desirable in any way.

[Hustensaft]

That's not what I'm asking.
If you increase the healing requirements, you also increase the wipes caused by insufficient healing output. And those are the worst type of wipes.
In short, you want everyone to suffer more wipes to please a subset of the community who'd like to cast more Medicas and Cures. This is not desirable in any way.

Numerical fights currently needs abour 2/3 of a single healers output to be healed... while you get two.

That's why healers get to press their Broil/Stone/Malefic for 80% of the fight, that's really very entertaining. It's even worse for SCH being able to run Selene, and still spend two thirds of his Aetherflow on Energy Drain, because there's virtually nothing else to use them on - in a 8 min fight you're lucky when you reach more than 5 Indoms and Excogs. (so much for "oGCD healing")

[Feidam]

That's not what I'm asking.
If you increase the healing requirements, you also increase the wipes caused by insufficient healing output. And those are the worst type of wipes.
In short, you want everyone to suffer more wipes to please a subset of the community who'd like to cast more Medicas and Cures. This is not desirable in any way.

I guess so. When I play a healer I want to heal. And if able toss some dps. Not the current I dps and toss out a ogcd heal as a side action. There is nothing wrong with challenging healers. They are there to heal first and foremost. How is a group wiping due to healer screwing up any worse than a dps screwing up? A tank? Each role needs to have responsibilities that if not met wipes the group. A healer unable to perform the healing requirements should wipe a group just like dps that can’t meet the dps check.

[Fyce]

Numerical fights currently needs abour 2/3 of a single healers output to be healed... while you get two.

That's why healers get to press their Broil/Stone/Malefic for 80% of the fight, that's really very entertaining. It's even worse for SCH being able to run Selene, and still spend two thirds of his Aetherflow on Energy Drain, because there's virtually nothing else to use them on - in a 8 min fight you're lucky when you reach more than 5 Indoms and Excogs. (so much for "oGCD healing")

I'm obviously not talking about good healers who know how to use their tools to the fullest. I'm talking about those who already struggle having the necessary awareness and reaction time to do Extreme content. These below average healers are currently allowed to do EX fights and still have a decent win rates. They already heal with GCDs because of a bad oGCD use. Raising the bar means that these people won't be able to do EX content. This is a loss for them, but also for everyone else. You might even force them to change their role, or even quit the game.

I guess so. When I play a healer I want to heal. And if able toss some dps. Not the current I dps and toss out a ogcd heal as a side action. There is nothing wrong with challenging healers. They are there to heal first and foremost. How is a group wiping due to healer screwing up any worse than a dps screwing up? A tank? Each role needs to have responsibilities that if not met wipes the group. A healer unable to perform the healing requirements should wipe a group just like dps that can’t meet the dps check.

We already have tank checks and DPS checks. We also already have heal checks. What you ask for can only be happening if this happens:
- Auto-attacks being way more powerful, forcing single-target healing through GCDs.
- Raid busters and raid damage being way more frequent, forcing AoE-healing through GCDs.
- Having way more single target damage requiring GCD healing.

In short, in order to force people into having to heal with GCD, you have to exaust the oGCD first, and then push even more damage on them so the only thing left to use are GCDs. This is when things break. A lot of people will simply not be able to do that. Which echoes what I've said to Hustensaft just above.
Tanks will die from auto-attacks. Group members will die from chip raid damage (including the healers themselves). Side effects also include a way bigger risk for using Raises, as MP issues will become instantly fatal.
This is extremely frustrating already when it happens. What you suggest will make it happen even more. And again, this is not desirable. There is absolutly nothing that warrant groups wiping more to that kind of things.

Also, what you want is not are not heal checks. You just want to raise the HPS healers do by forcing GCD usage. This is literally using more Medicas and Cures. This doesn't bring any interesting interactions, simply because the current GCD heals we have are not interesting to use. If there was a gameplay value, then I could maybe agree with you, that the cost of wiping more to frustrating things is worth it because of the good gameplay that would arise from playing this way. But that's not the case currently.

Forcing people into using GCD heals is not the way to go (at least not with the current GCD we have). The stakes are too high, for a very arguable and subjective benefits.
What I do agree on, is that "there is nothing wrong in challenging healers". But only if you challenge the right healers in the right content. Which isn't what you advocate for.

[Feidam]

I'm obviously not talking about good healers who know how to use their tools to the fullest. I'm talking about those who already struggle having the necessary awareness and reaction time to do Extreme content. These below average healers are currently allowed to do EX fights and still have a decent win rates. They already heal with GCDs because of a bad oGCD use. Raising the bar means that these people won't be able to do EX content. This is a loss for them, but also for everyone else. You might even force them to change their role, or even quit the game.

We already have tank checks and DPS checks. We also already have heal checks. What you ask for can only be happening if this happens:
- Auto-attacks being way more powerful, forcing single-target healing through GCDs.
- Raid busters and raid damage being way more frequent, forcing AoE-healing through GCDs.
- Having way more single target damage requiring GCD healing.

In short, in order to force people into having to heal with GCD, you have to exaust the oGCD first, and then push even more damage on them so the only thing left to use are GCDs. This is when things break. A lot of people will simply not be able to do that. Which echoes what I've said to Hustensaft just above.
Tanks will die from auto-attacks. Group members will die from chip raid damage (including the healers themselves). Side effects also include a way bigger risk for using Raises, as MP issues will become instantly fatal.
This is extremely frustrating already when it happens. What you suggest will make it happen even more. And again, this is not desirable. There is absolutly nothing that warrant groups wiping more to that kind of things.

Also, what you want is not are not heal checks. You just want to raise the HPS healers do by forcing GCD usage. This is literally using more Medicas and Cures. This doesn't bring any interesting interactions, simply because the current GCD heals we have are not interesting to use. If there was a gameplay value, then I could maybe agree with you, that the cost of wiping more to frustrating things is worth it. But that's not the case currently.

Forcing people into using GCD heals is not the way to go. The stakes are too high, for a very arguable and subjective benefit.
What I do agree on, is that "there is nothing wrong in challenging healers". But only if you challenge the right healers in the right content. Which isn't what you advocate for.

We Are going to have to agree to disagree. Also there are already in game options to help with raises and mp regen. Which as far as I can tell is there so healers can dps more because that is how they tend to be used these days in my experience.

[Seoulstar]

Yes that’s more of a reason why but still then tell
People the truth and don’t come with balancing bullshit when clearly healers are way more balanced then tanks. It’s like pld and war is played double the times in savage and whm only like 10 k less and they still make a new tank and have the audacity to tell us healers are not balanced so there won’t be a new one. Same crap with blue mage not being a normal caster.

I have already done this but have been called a entitled baby over it. Honestly, I don't care anymore. We've heard this excuse already before..hopefully, healers will be amazing next expansion or I fear the numbers of healers may drop drastically.

[Mortex]

I have already done this but have been called a entitled baby over it. Honestly, I don't care anymore. We've heard this excuse already before..hopefully, healers will be amazing next expansion or I fear the numbers of healers may drop drastically.

It’s more or less final fantasy 14 tanks and tank mains that doesn’t want a chance to war or pld and tell you drk is balanced. Playing war is a disease, it’s so boring and at the same time so busted that when you play drk as main tank you want to go back to war as fast as possible. I had 2 tanks that played wanted to play drk and after playing war for some month these guys couldn’t play drk for shit anymore. The same with paladin that has so mutch group utility so that it even kicks out drk on paper. Drk is a good idea but a bad design in stormblood like Paladin whas in heavensward were every tankbuster whas magic and the dps check whas so hard that there whas no place for pld and only drk .

[Mansion]

Snip

I'm not reasoning the same way but we agree in the end I think.
More healing requirements is not the way to go because for me in the current state of gameplay, healing is borderline boring. We don't heal that much, but we prevent damage, we calculate time for efficiency of regens, we study movement and positions for better performance and uptime, we plan the best use of oGCD while doing our most basic rotation which is refreshing DoTs and DPSing as long as no one will die.
Making more AoE damage, or harder auto-attack is just lazy design to force healers into GCD heals, which is not the shiniest part of healers' kits.

And I think that with the implementation of AST and the evolution of SCH, the devs are more in that state of mind of healers meeting a healing requirement (not letting anyone die), and give them more options to do more than healing (cards, pet management, buffs, DPS rotation).

So yeah, it's frustrating to die because of lack of healing, but it's even more annoying to spam heal during the majority of a fight because the game forces you into it, (the add fight in Orbonne just before Cid for instance; it requires a lot of raid healing, much more than what your oGCD heal can sustain on their own, and it's just boring).
I like healing when I have to think about it, time it right, not overheal etc. (and that's just my taste, I don't actually manage to do that in a savage setting).
Unless healing itself gets a major overhaul that makes it interesting to heal a lot, I'm going to say healing requirements are okay as they are.