After playing FFXI for a few weeks, cant wait for Trusts!

[Sigma-Astra]

Oh, but it's not a 'single player game' if you're online with a massive amount of people playing the same game at the same time and able to interact. What I'm saying is that MMO no longer means "group content only" which is how most traditional MMO players continue to believe it means. The fact remains that most newer MMOs and even older MMOs are expanding to add more and more solo content because they realize there is a huge market for players who want to play a long-term, frequently updated game but without requirements of strictly group content. As I mentioned, ESO is considered an MMORPG and yet it's mostly solo quest content and it's thriving. Other MMOs are seeing this and wanting to jump on the bandwagon as well. I remember when DCUO devs proclaimed that 'solo players are an anomaly' in their game and began limiting their solo content... a few months later... they changed course and began adding more solo content once again.

So that was my point, that MMO no longer means 'group only' content... which so many like to continue to cling to.

Again, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You cannot just change the core definition of what MMO stands for simply because you feel, personally, that it no longer means group content only. What I stated prior is exactly what MMO means and it will always mean that way to those who are veterans of the genre and those that are newcomers. When people sign up for an MMO, they're expecting content that they can play with other people online inside of a massive virtual world. They are not expecting the game to run like a linear single player title. And the few that are expecting that are still considered the anomalies over the rest.

If you're going to proclaim your own opinions as facts, then I want to see this listing of "newer MMO's and older MMO's adding more solo content instead of group content" so I can see the comparisons and how they outweigh each other. I want your sources. Even older MMO's like WoW are still producing heavy installments of group content and WoW would be the MMO to use as a source since it has a huge following like XIV and one of the major leading competitors that can change how the industry works.

ESO and DCUO is part of the genre by category and classification only, but they don't nearly garner as much influence towards changing the industry as WoW and XIV could. And furthermore, you can solo things in ESO now, you couldn't do that before at first with the game. They made it easier so that they could keep people attached towards the game or it would have died out a long time ago.

Just because a few games break out of the traditional mold every now and then does not mean that the core values and definition for an MMO somehow radically changes. One or two games does not break the mold just because they both offer a bit more additional solo content than the others. That's just a rarity. It does not mean that MMO no longer means "group content only", as you liked to put it.

The entire point, the whole point of playing an MMO is to, in fact, to play with other people in a massive world online and do content together, and that will never change no matter how much solo fluff they add to compensate for the people that don't seem to understand what sets an MMO apart from a single player experience.

You're trying to change the historical definition of a genre to suit your own narrative with like, two examples, and that's not even really a good enough argument to say that all of sudden the acronym MMO means something different now. I'm not sure if you're purposely being obtuse about this or just in denial.

[Callinon]

You have literally contradicted yourself here. It's not a solo experience if you are with 3 players... It doesn't matter if they do not talk, you are still playing the dungeon with other players that you wouldn't if it was a solo affair and it still gives you the option to talk to the other players, you don't have that option if you are playing with AI characters.

Also you say that nobody talks to each other but have you even tried to in dungeons? if you talk first generally you will get a response in dungeons and in any other content, if you don't talk players won't reply and that's even outside of dungeons/duty finder content.

Going through dungeons also isn't a social affair as players are there to level their job so if they is no reason to talk about the actual dungeon then players won't talk, this is the same with all the duty finder content in the game they talk about what they are doing. (rarely do players talk about social things unrelated to the actual dungeon/fight)

In general though dungeons are designed to be easy to clear but when you reach a boss or some particular tricky situation that isn't easy to understand players would talk, this is up to the developers because most of the time they give no reason for players to discuss any tactics or mechanics of the monsters as most are easy but if it's not you have to interact and talk to the other players so they understand how to works etc so if "someone" did the same thing with AI characters and got up to a tricky mechanic part, they would have nobody to tell them how it works if they were confused.

You didn't read what I wrote.

I said dungeons are basically a solo experience because there's little to no social interaction. The other 3 players in there with you might as well be made of cardboard. I wasn't saying this to lament to lack of chitchat in DF parties, I was saying it to illustrate the current reality.

[guardin]

Some people prefer to make their mmo experience a single player experience. Not that it makes any sense but they do.

Come now, dont be selfish! playing a single player mmo makes ALOT of sense.

I chose ff14 because i can play a lot alone. And the trust will save me time by not waiting 30+ min for a stupid tank or healer. That's like saying since you are an introvert you dont deserve to live on earth since you like to be alone or talk to a few people. MMO isnt just about playing with other people- it is an ENTIRELY new world to immerse yourself in. Sometimes people just want to sit back and watch from a distance. Or create a character in a world that single player doesnt offer- a game that keeps expanding. It's sad when people HAVE to play a game with their friend or they won't play at all. That makes you seem like you have no life or feelings of your own just following your "friends" and doing what "they" do. People now and days are too afraid to go out and do things on their own or meet people along the way that they will never see again. They always need their "friends" to hold their hands.

[guardin]

...No, they did not. You can't just change the definition of what the acronym for MMO stands for, in general, for the genre just because you feel that mentioning a few personal and arbitrary examples of games that don't follow the traditional mold to a "T" all of a sudden changes the way the entire industry looks at and frames the acronym entirely.

The first M still stands for Massive, as in, the game world is very, very large and it can incorporate an almost endless stream of locales, environments, cultures, races, cities, etc. It's huge, it's an expansive over world. You're not strictly confined towards a linear pathway or specific locale like a single player game would box you in with. You can freely roam an area that expands and seems larger than it really is.

The second M still stands for Multiplayer, as in, the game is able to host and house a very, very large playerbase. You can play with other gamers from differing background and locations without ever leaving the comforts of home. You can make long distance and short distance friends and broaden your social horizons unlike a single player game where you are solely playing by yourself. The AI's cannot converse with you, they can't hold a conversation, you can't form social bonds. You are playing with other people, therefore, it's multiplayer gameplay as in multiple people can join you.

And last, Online, this should be self-explanatory from the get-go.

If the MMO genre was meant to focus on stand-alone and single player gameplay than they would just simply be called "single player games". If an MMO has any kind of single player content, it could be referred to as flavor or additional content, but it is not a core value or component of the genre. Just because an MMO has some single player limelight in its gameplay, does not mean that the concept of an MMO is somehow radically changed. And the same can be said, again, if a single player game has a competitive, multiplayer mode in it.

You wouldn't call an MMO with some solo content a single player game, likewise, you wouldn't call a single player game with some multiplayer content an MMO either.

I think you are somewhat confused... YES there are massive people playing but that doesnt mean you HAVE to play content with them. Just like in real life you dont HAVE to do things with people. MMO isnt about doing content with people but just having a lot of people in one game. Solo experience or not. That is what he was saying.

[guardin]

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on wanting trusts in the over world.
It would be terribly dis-enchanting to be seeing the same NPCs over and over with other players in the zone. ><
I assume they will be dungeon only. Though I prefer to play with friends and other people so I'll likely only use Trust if there are rewards linked to it or the MSQ demands it, which is fine.

Side note: XI has teleport points now? Ha, I used to make my living being a tele-taxi WHM main.

im going to have to strongly disagree with you. It would be amazing to see the same npcs over and over. Feels like a real adventure like the amazing adventure with friends in ff15! feel more connected with the npcs and not just have them stand in one spot as you do all the work. Its an online, some things just have to be lore breaking or seems implausible because a lot of people have the same raid mounts or soon over 1k of the ff15 cars driving around.

[Sigma-Astra]

I think you are somewhat confused... YES there are massive people playing but that doesnt mean you HAVE to play content with them. Just like in real life you dont HAVE to do things with people. MMO isnt about doing content with people but just having a lot of people in one game. Solo experience or not. That is what he was saying.

No, I'm not confused. That's what the acronym "MMO" stands for and what the genre is mainly about. It's about being able to play a game with other people and doing things together on a huge social level when no other game in the genre at the time allows you to actively play with that many people at once. Even multiplayer modes in single player titles can only allow you to play against a limited number of people, for example, as many as the number of controllers will allow.

Real life has nothing to do with what an MMO initially stands for and has no bearing on this argument whatsoever.

Yes, there's solo content in XIV such as MSQ and crafting, but that's not what the game is trying to market or focus on entirely. If that were the case, 24 man raids, dungeons, trials, PvP, etc... wouldn't be a thing at all. When you sign yourself up for an MMO, you're signing yourself up to be around and play with other people, not just yourself for the entirety of the game. You can't just twist "Massive" to mean that it's just referencing a lot of people inside of the game when it's referencing to the actual game world itself. The Multiplayer aspect references towards the large number of people playing it.

An MMO is about doing tasks or content with other people, that's the main market and core game value for the genre, it's not just about having a large influx of people in one spot. He's only half right.

[Fawkes]

FFXIV isn't particularly massive. It can't even display 50 people doing a FATE or hunt together.

[Ceridwenae]

FFXIV isn't particularly massive. It can't even display 50 people doing a FATE or hunt together.

"Medium-ish Multiplayer..."

[Kaedan]

FFXIV isn't particularly massive. It can't even display 50 people doing a FATE or hunt together.

"Massive" refers to total number of people playing online at a time. Not just one server.

[TroySoFab]

I actually have social anxiety. I did not read Aryalandi's comment as if they were making light of mental illness in any way. In fact, they said something I could've said myself.

A mental illness in the most basic terms is a person's behavior that inhibits them from doing necessary activities in their life (simplified for the sake of not derailing the topic too much). An example would be a person not leaving one room ever for fear of other people outside. Not wanting to play video games with other people isn't necessary to live, so using mental illness to support your point is making light of a real problem that people struggle with.

And yeah, people have said to me before I shouldn't play MMOs because of social anxiety (and also photosensitive epilepsy* which I have!), but those people don't know jack. When you have a condition like this, you have to meet it face-to-face, and confront the hell out of it. Even if it's one inch at a time. Even if some days you fall right back down. You keep at it and keep at it and keep at it. It may never fully go away, but those moments in game when you do actually achieve something you didn't think possible before or gave you a hard time, those moments are all the sweeter for it.

Again, my point is made for me. Grouped content is helping you with your anxiety, and that's great! MMOs have given you a way to fight back and have packed it all into a fun game. Why then, would anyone want to take that aspect out of the game? Also if my previous response and this came off as accusing you and the other person of not really having a mental illness, that is not my intention. I wish you the best of luck in fighting it and who knows, maybe I'll bump into you in DF one day