Genderlock reminder to SE

[Nora_of_Mira]

I don't understand people getting so offended that we're requesting something be added to the game. If it bothers you that much, why not ignore the subject altogether? You guys are the ones traipsing into threads talking about the genderlock. What did you expect?

Why don't you guys go harass the people who have been asking for the hempen panty sets be unlocked for the different races for years? That breaks the lore too. :v A hyur isn't going to want to wear the same style panties as an elezen. Their cultures are completely different.

you change minds by presenting and defending reasonable arguments with facts and data, not by presenting strawman after strawman after strawman after strawman.

generally, those opposed to yourself are defending the devs based on what the dev's themselves have stated multiple times. Your argument boils down to "I want this because I want this, and whats the harm in that". Frankly, both arguments I find valid, I'm just not convinced at all.

[Lacan]

you change minds by presenting and defending reasonable arguments with facts and data, not by presenting strawman after strawman after strawman after strawman.

generally, those opposed to yourself are defending the devs based on what the dev's themselves have stated multiple times. Your argument boils down to "I want this because I want this, and whats the harm in that". Frankly, both arguments I find valid, I'm just not convinced at all.

I don't really think this is something you can convince people of to begin with though. If you don't have any interest in male Viera or female Hrothgar by virtue of having them present as options in the game in and of itself, there isn't much anyone can say to make you want that. Same goes for people who want them. There is nothing you can say to make the people that want them suddenly not want them. I know we're asking the devs to do extra work to make it happen, but what is so out of line about that? That is pretty much what everyone who posts on the forums is trying to do. This just happens to be a hot topic issue that has a lot of people clamoring for it.


I mean, the forum has collectively moaned about eureka since it launched. How is that not ungrateful? :v Shouldn't we be thankful for the content? How dare we ask for something to be improved upon. We should be taking out empty bowls to Yoshi and saying "Please sir, may I have some more eureka?"

[reivaxe]

I don't understand people getting so offended that we're requesting something be added to the game. If it bothers you that much, why not ignore the subject altogether? You guys are the ones traipsing into threads talking about the genderlock. What did you expect?

Why don't you guys go harass the people who have been asking for the hempen panty sets be unlocked for the different races for years? That breaks the lore too. :v A hyur isn't going to want to wear the same style panties as an elezen. Their cultures are completely different.

1 no ones "offended". Many are annoyed though and some are concerned about the devs making life much harder on themselves and the game over some tiny whiney group.

2 yoshi said they're looking at all feed back and the temperature of it so the silent majority who don't care should also show up to reassure them that they're not pissing off everyone.

3 I do support racial clothing when ever that topic comes up. I want MORE racial outfits.

[Lacan]

1 no ones "offended". Many are annoyed though and some are concerned about the devs making life much harder on themselves and the game over some tiny whiney group.

2 yoshi said they're looking at all feed back and the temperature of it so the silent majority who don't care should also show up to reassure them that they're not pissing off everyone.

3 I do support racial clothing when ever that topic comes up. I want MORE racial outfits.

I'll just say this so called "silent majority" who allegedly supports the genderlocks is having a real hard time getting anyone to like their topics and posts. Where are they? lol

[Nora_of_Mira]

I don't really think this is something you can convince people of to begin with though.

then why did someone make these threads? dont they want me to support their endeavor and sign some petition, or like some post, to show the devs that more and more people care about these binary races? I want to be convinced of your idea if I'm going to say "you know what, I do want those folk to have male bunny bois and female hrothgars (even though the male viera post outnumbers the fem hrothgar by over 4x)". But until then, I'm just going to go with the dev's decisions.

and i loved Eureka, i wasn't in that camp of Eureka haters.

I'll just say this so called "silent majority" who allegedly supports the genderlocks is having a real hard time getting anyone to like their topics and posts. Where are they? lol

they're playing the game and not reading these forums posts, lol.

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't understand people getting so offended that we're requesting something be added to the game.

No one's offended, but when we have a plethora of other threads to talk about genderlock and someone makes a new one because they feel that their opinion isn't being made loud enough regarding a subject that already has several pages of active discussions going on? Yea, you can't blame people for getting annoyed.

We don't need a daily reminder, it's already there.

OP is like the co-worker that comes in to tell you what they had for breakfast everyday just so people look and pay attention to them when you're in the middle of another conversation.

[Melichoir]

The arguments for Adding Male Viera/Female Hrothgar:

More Character Variety - Adding visual variety to the game to seem more robust and diverse
Parity in gender selections - There will be a female/male equivilant to all races
Letting people have the avatar they want - Customization people want when it comes to their player avatars

Arguments against:
Time/Money Budget Concerns - This would take away from them developing other content.
Lore - Lore stipulates that Male Viera are reclusive (There is no lore regarding female hrothgar at the present.)

Ill start by pulling apart the lore angle, since that is probably the weakest of the arguments against. Lore is not a concrete facet of any game. We can all agree that changing lore can break a game, so it has to be done carefully. However, the lore regarding Male Viera within FFXIV is incredibly sparse, and is (at best) just a reiteration of lore from separate final fantasy games. As it stands, FFXIV is not connected to any other FF in an official capacity. It only borrows elements from other FFs, which is a fairly consistent trait of FF games in general, and not indicative of them being linked. It's like if someone wrote fantasy stories that used similar elements (Dragons, dwarves, elves) it doesnt mean those stories take place in the same universe. Until the devs specifically say FFXIV is connected to other games and is not paying homages or non canonical cross overs for player fun (rather than lore), the lore regarding male viera is easily up for change. Particularly, as said, its very sparse and not really well put together in this case. Remember, Lore is in service of Gameplay, not the other way around. If your lore limits player options for conceivably arbitrary reasons (particularly when you retconned similar lore in the past for gameplay - see male miqote/female highlander/roe) then its not good lore. It's an excuse, not a world building facet, and people see through it typically.

We can also point out there is no real lore reason for no female Hrothgar at this time, so this hurts the "In Game Lore" argument.


The money/time option is a better argument to have. Yes, developing the opposite sex will end up consuming resources. However, much like glamour, or holiday events, or etc, all these things add flavor to the game and require time and effort. We have no way, as a player base, of quantifying how much time and effort is required to make the opposite sex here. Nor do we know how that effort will impact other content. It may very well be that the impact would be 1 less glamour item, emote, or housing item over a content patch, with no effect on primary content (MSQ, Raid, Savage). We can only speculate. Furthermore, while a few people may not like this, races with genders is content. Its a facet of the game that some people tune in for. We can all agree that if we were all giant green squares, that the interest in the game would be reduced. Part of what makes the game interesting for players is how their character looks. It matters to a lot of players, and is not an arbitrary thing. It's also an income method for SE (as people do Fantasia). The position that "It's not important to me, therefore SE shouldnt make them" is fundamentally the same argument that can be used against any content of interest. There are people, as an example, who dont care about the Nier Crossover raid, and would rather have both sexes in game. Point is, if the reason to reject it is out of personal subjective preference, then dont be surprised if that can be turned on its head against content you want.

Honestly, I dont think either argument is particularly great for not adding them. We have precedence in game regarding genders, there does appear to be a large desire from the player base, SE was very quick to say "Were gonna look at player feedback regarding this" (probably cause of the audible sighs of disappointment from the audience in FF Japan, among the forums blowing up here). They were on a shortened schedule to make sure ShB gets out on time, and they gambled with an idea they thought would make more people happy. I dont think it particularly worked out like they hoped. If they didnt think they would have resources going forward, they wouldnt have even mentioned "watching feedback" as that would probably hurt them harder long run and damage the SE brand. It's more likely at this point not an IF but a WHEN we get them as itll just be something developed slowly overtime (possibly released for the next xpac.) Who knows though, as I was wrong already, thinking SE would do the smart thing and release male Viera.

[Lacan]

then why did someone make these threads? dont they want me to support their endeavor and sign some petition, or like some post, to show the devs that more and more people care about these binary races? I want to be convinced of your idea if I'm going to say "you know what, I do want those folk to have male bunny bois and female hrothgars (even though the male viera post outnumbers the fem hrothgar by over 4x)". But until then, I'm just going to go with the dev's decisions.

and i loved Eureka, i wasn't in that camp of Eureka haters.

The point of the threads are just to show SE that there is interest in male Viera and female Hrothgar. That's it. It isn't a cult or something. If you aren't interested in those races then you aren't interested. I just don't get why you want to go out of your way to undermine people who do want them though. That's where it just becomes petty to me.

[whiskeybravo]

How can you lock something that doesn't exist?

[ExKage]

I don't understand people getting so offended that we're requesting something be added to the game. If it bothers you that much, why not ignore the subject altogether? You guys are the ones traipsing into threads talking about the genderlock. What did you expect?

Why don't you guys go harass the people

Lol what?

These are discussion forums and no one really wants to see 4-5 threads of "WE WANT FEMALE HROTHGAR NOW" / "WE WANT MALE VIERA NOW"/ "REMOVE GENDERLOCK" / "KEEP GENDERLOCK" / "KEEP HROTHGAR MALE ONLY" / "KEEP VIERA FEMALE ONLY" soapboxes. People disagreeing with you aren't harassing you by countering.