things I like to see for all tanks

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Get rid of tanking and dps stances. When it is preferred for tanks to be in dps stance rather than tank stance then there is something fundamentally wrong with the game design.

Tbh, stance aren't really tank stance and DPS stance as much as a defensive stance and offensive stance, the monikers tank/ DPS stance is one the players decided to call as such.
There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with this game, it's just a more modern approach to the tank/healer/ damage dealer trinity. An approach that makes both tanks and healers considerably more enjoyable than spamming 1 2 3 or being nothing more than a healbot.

[Eloah]

I'm honestly surprised that there isn't any skills like a Rally or War Cry that buffs everyone else's damage for like 15 seconds on a Tank Class. Or everyone except the one that used it. I guess SoSu from DRK sorta counts but meh. Or Tanks just pulsing out buffs for the party. That would be cool.

War Cry is already in the game actually, but it's a Japanese skill. In English the skill is Infuriate.

[AleXwern]

Get rid of tanking and dps stances. When it is preferred for tanks to be in dps stance rather than tank stance then there is something fundamentally wrong with the game design.

After reading the whole thing that Odinel wrote and then this, just made me frustrated. Not mad, frustrated.

What does this supposed "tank stance" bring to a grand scheme of things? Does it make gameplay more engaging? Does it help me clear content and push raid performance? Does it make look back at my raid footage and plan my cooldowns in most RNG-proof manner as possible? Is there any way of improving oneself now that aggro is absolute non-issue ever and passive stance cuts the need for mitigation?
Even just simply put, is it/does it feel rewarding? Everyone can think that on their own.

I played PLD during ARR and looking back, sitting in Shield Oath and spamming RoH, because there was no other alternatives, just sounds so distant and mindbogglingly numb. I just can't understand why that should be the preferred way to tanking or why should we go back to it.

Tank stance, or rather "defensive stance", is training wheels and emergency button. It's there for newbies to learn the ropes and veterans to go "oh crap, time to eat penalty" when Vengeance isn't up for Savage Wave Cannon. That's how I prefer it: it's not something I want to actively use but it's there when I need it. It's something I can lean towards when everything else goes south.

[SargentToughie]

After reading the whole thing that Odinel wrote and then this, just made me frustrated. Not mad, frustrated.

What does this supposed "tank stance" bring to a grand scheme of things? Does it make gameplay more engaging? Does it help me clear content and push raid performance? Does it make look back at my raid footage and plan my cooldowns in most RNG-proof manner as possible? Is there any way of improving oneself now that aggro is absolute non-issue ever and passive stance cuts the need for mitigation?
Even just simply put, is it/does it feel rewarding? Everyone can think that on their own.

I played PLD during ARR and looking back, sitting in Shield Oath and spamming RoH, because there was no other alternatives, just sounds so distant and mindbogglingly numb. I just can't understand why that should be the preferred way to tanking or why should we go back to it.

Tank stance, or rather "defensive stance", is training wheels and emergency button. It's there for newbies to learn the ropes and veterans to go "oh crap, time to eat penalty" when Vengeance isn't up for Savage Wave Cannon. That's how I prefer it: it's not something I want to actively use but it's there when I need it. It's something I can lean towards when everything else goes south.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother. I'm thankful for the effort you put into your post.

I've given up on trying to convince the forums of this stuff ages ago.

[Daniolaut]

I think your Main Problem is, that you don't know how tanking works in this game, respectively how the hole game works.

Awereness is fine as it is. Locking it as a passive effect in tankstance is shit, because good players don't use tank stance in high end content. Just plan and use your cds
.

These two statements dont go hand in hand.

A good tank is one that knows when to turn on tank stance and when to turn it off.

This includes turning it on to help a dps/healer, instead of staying in dps stance, losing threat, or dying and blaming the healer. There is a large array of players in this game, and I've seen numerous tanks refusing to swap stances and blame the party, wearing ultimate or savage weapons, get replaced, and then the party 1 shots the fight they were doing. I have seen it very very often.

I've seen healers let a dps die to cast another dps spell, tanks lose threat to a dps, and the dps die, I have seen countless issues such as these very very often. Being in dps stance does not, absolutely does not make you a good player at all.

This mentality of "being in dps stance makes me a good player" is very damaging to the success of the overall playerbase.

[CelestaRosa]

These two statements dont go hand in hand.

A good tank is one that knows when to turn on tank stance and when to turn it off.

This includes turning it on to help a dps/healer, instead of staying in dps stance, losing threat, or dying and blaming the healer. There is a large array of players in this game, and I've seen numerous tanks refusing to swap stances and blame the party, wearing ultimate or savage weapons, get replaced, and then the party 1 shots the fight they were doing. I have seen it very very often.

I've seen healers let a dps die to cast another dps spell, tanks lose threat to a dps, and the dps die, I have seen countless issues such as these very very often. Being in dps stance does not, absolutely does not make you a good player at all.

This mentality of "being in dps stance makes me a good player" is very damaging to the success of the overall playerbase.

finally someone who agrees with me thank you. I agree with you majority of tank players see their tank stance as "noob stance" and dont want touch it when they know should. not cool let dps die cause these tanks are stuck up

[Campi]

These two statements dont go hand in hand.

A good tank is one that knows when to turn on tank stance and when to turn it off.

This includes turning it on to help a dps/healer, instead of staying in dps stance, losing threat, or dying and blaming the healer. There is a large array of players in this game, and I've seen numerous tanks refusing to swap stances and blame the party, wearing ultimate or savage weapons, get replaced, and then the party 1 shots the fight they were doing. I have seen it very very often.

I've seen healers let a dps die to cast another dps spell, tanks lose threat to a dps, and the dps die, I have seen countless issues such as these very very often. Being in dps stance does not, absolutely does not make you a good player at all.

This mentality of "being in dps stance makes me a good player" is very damaging to the success of the overall playerbase.

You perfectly showed, that you don't understand how this game works^^
Maybe you should first get into Extreme Trials, Savage Raids and Ultimate Fights and then you will overthink your message.

"DPS-Stance" don't make you to a good player, i've never said that.
but only staying in tank-stance spaming 123 make you to a bad tank. I've seen a lot of such players, just looking like a bot. Tank-Stance, 123 and no Def-CDs used.

A good Tank takes far more less dmg, then you bad tank staying 100% in tank-stance.
If you know what to do, you never punish you healer with not using tank-stance.

I've cleared every content and in 99% you just need tank-stance for the pull to gain more aggro. That's all :shrug:


I just can't understand why ppl want a boring playstyle for tanks.
Maybe this is just the wrong game for you? There are many other games, where you can spam brainless aggroskills and do nothing else o:

[Tint]

I've cleared every content and in 99% you just need tank-stance for the pull to gain more aggro. That's all :shrug:

Sure, you don't need tank stance to clear the content per se - but you maybe will need it depending on your party. When you have good healers and DDs who know what they are doing you can sit in dps stance all day long. But when the healer is struggling and the DDs don't know what an enmity reduction tool is what are you doing then? Just wipe and blame the party for playing bad? Or do you pick up the slack by turning the tank stance on to get the extra defense to help the healers out and the extra enmity to stay ahead of the DDs?

Maybe you should read again what Daniolaut said. He never said you should be 100% in tank stance, he said a good tank adapts to the situation.

[Campi]

Sure, i'm using tank-stance when i have to, but these situations are very rare.


The Problem is, that the OP sees two different kinds of Tanks
- The ones who use Tank-stance
- The ones who use "Dmg-Stance"

Both Stances belong to a Tank. Neither the Stance, nor the Rotation makes you to a Tank or DPS
A good Player use his full Skillset and deals as much Dmg as possible to help clear the Fight faster, which means less healing is needed.
If you can play your Job well, you won't have any Aggro-Issues. There is no need for spaming Aggro-Combo and camping in Tank-Stance.

It's not directly what Daniolaut said, but what the OP wants.
I like playing this Game, and i don't want, that it will be changed to braindead playstyle, only because bad players want, that all others should be playing bad too. :shrug:

[ReiMakoto]

Sure, you don't need tank stance to clear the content per se - but you maybe will need it depending on your party. When you have good healers and DDs who know what they are doing you can sit in dps stance all day long. But when the healer is struggling and the DDs don't know what an enmity reduction tool is what are you doing then? Just wipe and blame the party for playing bad? Or do you pick up the slack by turning the tank stance on to get the extra defense to help the healers out and the extra enmity to stay ahead of the DDs?

Maybe you should read again what Daniolaut said. He never said you should be 100% in tank stance, he said a good tank adapts to the situation.

A good tank should never have to adapt to a situation. A good tank will be rotating cds/ generating emnity enough that they would never have to stance dance/ very rarely stance dance.