things I like to see for all tanks

[CelestaRosa]

1. I dont want see "low blow" removed from any of the tanks its very important have ogc stun that can use any any time a tank without propar disturbation is useless

1.2 i do not want see good tanking cool-downs being removed. because majority of tank players refuse to use them and know they should but dont fault isn't squire-enix. its selfish player base who think only of themself.s not of team-mates in their party their trying to protect. i have ask you whats your roll again? dps or tanking?

I do not want see provoke or ultimatuim removed. or ability that helps make tank swapping easier.. Rampart should continue to stay as a tank roll skill.

I feel that awareness should become some sort of trait - or added to their tank stance that along in tank stance they can't get critted.


2. this is gonna get me a-lot of hate dislike from tanking community but i have to say it.. please stop giving us dps abilities. we have alot tanks these days that are stay in perminate sword oath and pull half the dungeon. and expect to be heal'd . when organically when just war and paladin tanking . tanking class stood for what it was so post to stand for.


Tanking Enmity Generation and damage reduction. now we i can't tell the difference are we a tank or are we dps or are we both. cause be frank. i seen more and more tanks lean towards dps then actual tanking. war is always been like this but making paladin have more offensive opinions now we have bunch of players that actually get a paladin or dark knight basically fuck shield oath or grit. whole dungeon gets mad at healer cause they could heal them when have 22-30 monsters beating on them when told to use sheild oath please. they boot you out the party for being toxic..not pop single defensive cooldown too. stress out other teammates. as much as i love see these type of players be punished for their inability to understand what their doing is wrong. sadly really dont want see squire-enix have make new abilities support you dumb tanking choice that result in getting your teammates killled at this point i am be happy with anything at moment

3. I like see gap closers all 3 tanks. I like to see aoe stun of some sort on all 3 tanks. support those big abusive pulls . that majority of tank players do. as mu

4. i like see some sort dps protection on all 3 tanks specially when they pull so massive and monster abilities being thrown all over the place. that its hard not get full combo in without taking critical damage tank ulitity should be looked at

Paladins already has that

but war/drk does not

[MagiusNecros]

I'm honestly surprised that there isn't any skills like a Rally or War Cry that buffs everyone else's damage for like 15 seconds on a Tank Class. Or everyone except the one that used it. I guess SoSu from DRK sorta counts but meh. Or Tanks just pulsing out buffs for the party. That would be cool.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I feel that awareness should become some sort of trait - or added to their tank stance that along in tank stance they can't get critted.


2. this is gonna get me a-lot of hate dislike from tanking community but i have to say it.. please stop giving us dps abilities. we have alot tanks these days that are stay in perminate sword oath and pull half the dungeon. and expect to be heal'd . when organically when just war and paladin tanking . tanking class stood for what it was so post to stand for.


Tanking Enmity Generation and damage reduction. now we i can't tell the difference are we a tank or are we dps or are we both. cause be frank. i seen more and more tanks lean towards dps then actual tanking. war is always been like this but making paladin have more offensive opinions now we have bunch of players that actually get a paladin or dark knight basically fuck shield oath or grit. whole dungeon gets mad at healer cause they could heal them when have 22-30 monsters beating on them when told to use sheild oath please. they boot you out the party for being toxic..not pop single defensive cooldown too. stress out other teammates. as much as i love see these type of players be punished for their inability to understand what their doing is wrong. sadly really dont want see squire-enix have make new abilities support you dumb tanking choice that result in getting your teammates killled at this point i am be happy with anything at moment

I dunno why people are recommending the removal of Awareness in it's current form, it is literally perfectly fine as it is, baking it into tank stance is just idiotic.

So you next point of people hating on your opinion of no new offensive skills, tanks have more than just aggro combos, which seems like you didn't know judging by your post, and the good thing about getting new DPS skills is getting new ways to change up rotations a little, or a lot like PLD gaining Requiescat and Holy Spirit in SB.

As for the rest you clearly seem to have limit knowledge of how tanking is done in this game versus other MMOs, when the very key purpose of any combat encounter in this game is to deal as much damage as possible while completing mechanics and performing the duties of your role. Neither is mutual exclusive of the other, both a very much achievable if you bother to learn how to play your job at an efficient level and do your homework on encounters. At the end of the day you can only mitigate so much dmg, you can only hold so much aggro before it means nothing and in return you give up a rather sizeable chunk of rDPS all for the sake of keeping a few people with "special ideals" happy.
You also seemed to over exaggerate the amount of mobs that were involved in a pull lol also using a dungeon as a basis for judging a tank role is laughable at best when the majority of tank players in dungeons don't know what they're doing half the time. At the end of the day, trying to limit tanks abilities to suit yourself is pretty selfish in its own right, and personally I like try to play jobs to the best that both I can and how the job itself can, but your idea is the equivalent to tying both my hands behind my back lol

[Beki_Bayaqad]

2. this is gonna get me a-lot of hate dislike from tanking community but i have to say it.. please stop giving us dps abilities. we have alot tanks these days that are stay in perminate sword oath and pull half the dungeon. and expect to be heal'd . when organically when just war and paladin tanking . tanking class stood for what it was so post to stand for.

As a Dedicated TANK, I have to disagree. Us tanks are the only role with two attack rotations since one of them is *dedicated* to enmity generation along side our Hate kits. While we also have a Recovery/Debuff rotation to improve dealt damage or recover some resource (MP for DRK and PLD and HP for WAR) and thus making it a slightly less burden on others as well as helping burn targets if we're on our DPS stance. Removing one of the rotations will remove half the point of the classes.

[Zeldert-Castiel]

For #2 I'd like to say:

Removing DPS skills is dangerous because some people play tank mainly for MSQ. Some instant duty require DPS check and if tanks only have tank rotation they'll never pass the duty unless they switch to DPS first.

Also off-tank rotations is useful, like to regain MP for DRK and HP for WAR.

I don't hate you for #2, tho

[Eldtagg]

Just going to chime in with my limited newbie knowledge of the game:

1. Baking in awareness passivly seem very OP. Knowing when to hit the CD is crucial to your role.
If we go with your suggestion that tanks cant be critted then mobs, bosses and other players need to get their damage against you buffed. Being able to not get critted is a huge mitigation buff to tanks.

2. Removing DPS skills. Then literally noone will play tank. You want us to go back 20 years in MMORPG history when tanks and healers couldnt complete content solo because they did no damage?

We can just remove quests then as well and go back to forced party exp farm when you kill the same monsters for 12 hours to get a level. FUUUN.

Doing Dps while tanking, doing mechanics and protecting your party is why tanking is exciting.

We're not playing EQ1 or Ultima Online here.

Theres a lot of bad suggestions in your post. Reading through it you seem annoyed at how some ppl are playing or you ran into a couple of toxic players and believe that everyone has the same attitude as those toxic players.

I would gladly heal a tank in Dps stance if it meant the dungeon went faster. L2P issue.

Even as a newbie with no endgame experience I see a lot of bad ideas in your thread.

[Campi]

snip

I think your Main Problem is, that you don't know how tanking works in this game, respectively how the hole game works.

If the Gamedesign stays as it is, then Low Blow won't be removed. Stund and Silence are needed in some Dungeons, Raids and Trials.
They also can't removed def cds, because they are needed in Raids for Busters etc
Also provoke can't be removed, since tanks-swaps are needed
Awereness is fine as it is. Locking it as a passive effect in tankstance is shit, because good players don't use tank stance in high end content. Just plan and use your cds

If you don't want "dps abilitys", whtat do you want to the whole Fight? 123 + Netflix & Chill?
Tanking itself is very very easy in this game, It's easy to hold hate, when you just stand there in tankstance and doing some aggro skills. You could be 50% of the time afk then.
Pls learn how the Tanks work, before you want such things. Not everybody wants to play a braindead job.

Gap closer would be a n2h for pld, but not rly needed

Cover for every tank isn't good. Every Tank should have its own Skills, otherwise we would only need 1 Tank Job, if everyone should have the same skills.

[ReiMakoto]

You seem to have a lot of ideas of how this game should play or be changed when you seem to have little understanding of how it currently is played (see the healer threads they've made). The only thing I can think of is you don't actually like how this game plays and want to overhaul it, at which point why not play a different game if you don't enjoy the one you're currently playing.

[OdinelStarrei]

Hi, welcome to my TED talk about your suggestions.

1. "Low Blow" and "Interject" cannot be removed or retooled from the game, as many fights (A3S, O3S, Seiryu EX etc etc) require adds to be stunned or silenced. What I would like to personally happen is for both the actions to be rolled into one "Disable" role action that will do both a stun and a silence (incase the enemy is immune to one) to save on hotbar space. If you are using stuns to prevent yourself from dying to auto attacks, something has gone wrong with gear or pressing cooldowns. Bosses can't be stunned either, so outside of specific enemies with untelegraphed "tankbusters" like the gorillas in Ala Mhigo and Castrum Abania, I struggle to think of legitimate stun opportunities that aren't tied to an actual mechanic.

To answer your question, my role is tank, but my job is to kill everything as quickly as possible so it stops hitting me.
Provoke cannot be changed either, because tank swapping and proper enmity management would be impossible. This could actually be a productive conversation on the merits/demerits of Shirk, and how it has completely trivialized enmity as a tank mechanic in every fight except Ultimate and O4S, but that wasn't brought up in this post.
I have some concerns with making Awareness traited into the tank stance. Not only will you be removing a cooldown that I specifically save in my timeline for mechanics or situations where I need to move a lot, (Godka trines anyone?) relying only on instants from my healers, you've also punished DRK and PLD indirectly by forcing them into tank stance, wasting a GCD and mana, to avoid dying to things like Tera Slash in Shinryu EX, Critical Hit from O3S, or Zurvan's adds. Awareness is a good CD the way it is now, it complements ALL tanks despite their different mitigation kits in a way they all can appreciate and I honestly hope it's kept into 5.0.

2. Tanks need DPS abilities. Not only do tanks need them to do MSQ content, in ACTUAL team content, tanks contribute a massive amount to the overall raid DPS. If you start neglecting the DPS side of tanks, you've done nothing but lower the skill ceiling for what a competent tank can bring to an encounter, boring good players who care about their contribution to the team, while STILL having subpar tanks be terrible. If they ALREADY aren't pressing their cooldowns, why do you think adding MORE mitigation options will make them use cooldowns? NO ONE who actually tanks at even a mediocre level pulls mobs without tank stance/aggro plan. If they are, they do not understand why, and are only following what they see other players doing, instead of actually learning to play the role correctly. You can shut these players down by explaining what tank stance is actually for and how the game works, or failing that, just vote kicking them. Or SE can fix this by implementing better training tools in-game instead of conjecture in forums or the Novice Network.


At the core, you are not complaining about tank design. You are complaining about the tank players you keep getting stuck with, which are two entirely different topics. I am also wondering what the point is in insulting other players in this post.
People who are complaining about tank and healer DPS should instead be complaining about how the game deals damage to the party and overall encounter design. More on this later.

3. I also disagree with giving all tanks gap closers. WAR/DRK have minor opportunity costs to their gap closers. PLD has a unique niche in being able to negate the knockback, and also cover one party member, such as BRD/MCH, who lack the knockback prevention. PLD is also the only tank that has a ranged component to it's kit that isn't aggro related in Holy Spirit, further lessening the punishment for being far away (Will admit, outside of Req, this is not a good idea unless planned with a Refresh and/or a Sheltron). But this is a minor point in the grand scheme, if PLD got one, I'd say "cool, nice, more uptime"

Tanks should not get an AoE stun, because in raid, it's useless, and in dungeons, that particular role is already dominated by WHM (Holy) and AST (CO,which they are already using to extend regens/cards/lucid) . Even SCH compensates from the lack of a stun with Emrabces and Whispering Dawn passive healing, while also bringing insane damage via DoTs and Miasma II. Dungeons are inherently unbalanced, so I avoid theorizing abilities around them.

4. No. PLD's niche is cover and party mitigation/shielding. All tanks have utility, but PLD's is cover and PoA, and it should remain PLD exclusive. It's not only part of the identity of the job, if you add cover-based abilities to every tank, and you add party shields to every tank, you've homogenized the role and killed PLD. Why would anyone bring PLD, with it's inferior damage, when DRK and WAR can cover each other and provide raid buffs instead? You've also indirectly nerfed every 8man tank buster in the game by 20%, because unless that buster was being invuln'd, why would you choose to take it without a Cover? Just use your cooldowns on autoattacks, leave the actual tankbuster to the cotank, who can just Cover + TBN or Thrill of Battle, and get that free Rampart mitigation on top.

Closing thoughts: I would like everyone who says "Tanks should be tanks, and not DPS" to go into Eureka and fight enemies at +5 level on tank. Or, they can be the MT in a Arsenal run. Then they will see how mind-numbing it is. Doing nothing but aggro combos, not allowed to do your rotation or optimize, just sit there for ten minutes and let the boss hit you while the DPS have actual engaging gameplay. Because the consequence for not doing so is getting the DPS or healer splattered into the ground from 35K auto attacks. Is that what people want in DUNGEONS? Taking a UCoB level of damage constantly so the tanks need to be afraid of trash pulls, the healers aren't allowed to do anything else but spam Cure II because of incoming damage, and the DPS still don't use AoE or Goad each other? If you make it so that the more skilled players are struggling in dungeon/leveling content because of what would have to change about encounters to encourage tank stance, what's going to happen to undergeared or casual players? Your content will suddenly be above your skill floor, which should be reserved for EX and Savage, not MSQ and optional dungeons. And sometimes we can't even meet that floor because of the skill and gear discrepancy. Sadu/Magnai solo duty and the recent MSQ sword DPS check for example.

You need to consider how your suggestions not only affect the role, but also the game as a cohesive unit. Particularly regarding balance in dungeons/raids, because PLD would not exist in it's current form if the team balanced for dungeons, as it is awful in there.To do a change in tanking, we need a fundamental break down of boss outgoing damage, healing potency, and an enrage check overhaul. And you'll be left with a tank/healing relationship that's been around for a little over two decades now in other games. I don't think taking away one of the things that makes FFXIV unique, it's spin on the holy trinity of tank/DPS/healer, is helpful for the game long term.

Just because your players are awful at mass pulling dungeons, does not mean all tanks are awful and we need an upheaval of the role. If I'm taking a solo stack explosion in O12S Hello World without being topped, or actually, ANY damage I'm aware can cause significant danger to the party, or if I'm noticing my healers are struggling, you better believe I'm throwing the training wheels back on. Because that's what tank stance is. A situational solution to a crisis or aggro generation in the first few GCDs. Tank stance is a tool to be used. It is NOT the entire job.

I didn't even really talk about how healers also contribute to this in a significant way with oGCDs and regens, and that'd probably be ANOTHER 8000 characters long.

"Any monkey can spam aggro combos and keep hate. You should strive to be better then that." -direct quote from the person I learned tanking from, seems apt here.
sorry for long post

[Nolagamer]

Get rid of tanking and dps stances. When it is preferred for tanks to be in dps stance rather than tank stance then there is something fundamentally wrong with the game design.