Waved or Reduced MP cost for Magic combo's

[Klive]

the trick to not running out of mp in the ifrit fight on THM is to start spamming combos later (like start in phase 2, and have LNC get him through phase 1 for the most part) then to use a macro such as this (with action queuing on) for your combos:

/ac "Thunder <t>
/wait 2
/ac "Parsimony" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Thundara <t>

The cooldown on parsimony is long enough that if you use the combo whenever Thundara is ready, parsimony will be triggered every other time you use the combo. Remeber to fight with you weapon put away, and sit down at the tanks feet when Ifrit jumps.

Macros for combos for the Ifirt fight are not the best idea. Animation lock can easily enough get you killed; a string of animation locks from a macro can end very badly. Better to cast each spell separately in a fight like Ifirt.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

THM is pretty much needed for a smooth phase 1 moogle because they can take down the GLA and MRD moogles with ease.

Incorrect.

2 Cons in Cleric stance spamming aero and stone combo is more than enough magic dps for mrd/gla. Because of this fact, people often opt for another archer in the place of a thm. Couple this with the fact that con can use blissful mind and shroud of saints to pretty much never run out of mp, the con will have much greater staying power than a thm. Furthermore a con has the advantage of being able to heal the party as well. Because of this, a con's usefulness to the party, at least in moogle fight, far outweighs any thm.

You'd be better off bringing a third con to the fight than a thm imo.

[Firon]

Incorrect.

2 Cons in Cleric stance spamming aero and stone combo is more than enough magic dps for mrd/gla. Because of this fact, people often opt for another archer in the place of a thm. Couple this with the fact that con can use blissful mind and shroud of saints to pretty much never run out of mp, the con will have much greater staying power than a thm. Furthermore a con has the advantage of being able to heal the party as well. Because of this, a con's usefulness to the party, at least in moogle fight, far outweighs any thm.

You'd be better off bringing a third con to the fight than a thm imo.

Thank you its hard to heal mp in the second phase as thm when your are constantly running around until they "understand" this they will never know. If Se wants to add more dynamic fights standing in one spot getting mp is not apart of that when your trying not to die cause your standing still.

[Molly_Millions]

Macros for combos for the Ifirt fight are not the best idea. Animation lock can easily enough get you killed; a string of animation locks from a macro can end very badly. Better to cast each spell separately in a fight like Ifirt.

I didn't die once using that method. You'll only die if you don't know what you are doing, or just aren't very good at what you are trying to do. If you get greedy and constantly spam the macro, things won't end well. But if you use it sparingly and carefully, you'll be just fine.

[NoctisUmbra]

Thank you its hard to heal mp in the second phase as thm when your are constantly running around until they "understand" this they will never know. If Se wants to add more dynamic fights standing in one spot getting mp is not apart of that when your trying not to die cause your standing still.

THM's damage output exceeds that of a Cleric CNJ even. Sure, one can make do as such in Phase 1, but in Phase II I'd rather every ounce of each CNJ's MP be left for heals, what with the chaos that can ensue, including but not limited to the THF AoE stealing MP.

As for the bit about "understanding," I was under the impression we were speaking from experience here. If in your experience you find that you are inefficient at managing your hate and MP, and find that you are unable to assist your team effectively in phase 2 through the use of Blizzara and AoE Sanguine Rite then that's too bad. Presuming that's the case for every THM I find funny however, given I'm able to be useful to my party and manage my MP.

[Firon]

THM's damage output exceeds that of a Cleric CNJ even. Sure, one can make do as such in Phase 1, but in Phase II I'd rather every ounce of each CNJ's MP be left for heals, what with the chaos that can ensue, including but not limited to the THF AoE stealing MP.

As for the bit about "understanding," I was under the impression we were speaking from experience here. If in your experience you find that you are inefficient at managing your hate and MP, and find that you are unable to assist your team effectively in phase 2 through the use of Blizzara and AoE Sanguine Rite then that's too bad. Presuming that's the case for every THM I find funny however, given I'm able to be useful to my party and manage my MP.

Like i said show me i see your ls @ the moogle fight plenty of times never seen a thm in your set up i wonder why. Until you show me you can hold your mp up w/o standing still and not getting hit by mobs while trying rest then i wont post gain but you havent all you keep saying using some bullshit tactics that don't work while thm is sitting there getting mp back all the other DD out parse them.

[Elcura]

You'd be better off bringing a third con to the fight than a thm imo.

Incorrect.

If you think CNJ should be nuking during phase 2 you must be high.

[NoctisUmbra]

Like i said show me i see your ls @ the moogle fight plenty of times never seen a thm in your set up i wonder why. Until you show me you can hold your mp up w/o standing still and not getting hit by mobs while trying rest then i wont post gain but you havent all you keep saying using some bullshit tactics that don't work while thm is sitting there getting mp back all the other DD out parse them.

lol... and how do you propose I do that? I have nothing to prove. You either go with a THM or you don't. To each his own. The point is, people are going in with a THM to almost every content at the moment. Some more than others. There are shells that bring a THM into Moogle. This just goes to show that THM isn't considered useless, and that the current MP costs are not a hindrance.

High risk/cost > high reward. That is a THM.

[Physic]

I think I'm doing exactly that. I think the problem is how you define slow. Define slow for me. Oh, you want to nuke 24/7? Tough luck there, because that's not how you play THM this time around (Hell, it wasn't how you played THM last time around either). THM isn't slow, you just think it's slow (and conversely, I don't. IMPASSE!)

Get used to not having perpetual (and useless) MP. If you can't adapt to the new play style, stop playing it. Again, to say it's slow is wrong. To say it's slower, is right. I'd rather this than waiting 30 seconds to 1 minute for my debuffs to wear off so I can be useful again. I also loved waiting 60 seconds for my debuffs to cooldown because of the capped accuracy rate on landing magic. I loved throwing out 700 sacs when the CNJs are doing 900-1200 Cure IIIs for the same MP.

I love having full MP. And I love having nothing to do with it. If you think constant nuking makes up for that...well I don't what to say to that. You may be doing less overall, but you're getting so much more out of it.

90 miles vs 100 miles, remember?

well i guess its a style choice then, what you are basically saying is that yes mp management makes you have to do nothing sometimes, but for you that is cool gameplay, and some agree with you, personally id prefer are more active playstyle where you could shift your dmg to super high dmg or back down, or also possibliy a playstyle where you spend some time doing damage and some time managing your mpp actively. But, i acknowledge that they were going for something different which some people may like more.

Another problem, with the new battle system overall is, it definately feels like it was made with being 50 in mind. a lot of things dont come together until you are high level. I ve played my level 50 pug and lnc, which kind of feels like a working chr, and i played my low level arch, who feels like he is handicapped. playing my upper midlevel gla and almost complete mrd feels the similar. Most likely this is due to the rigid 15 skills, not wanting to repeat any skills and having a uniform rule for how many skills you get and what type of skills for all charachters.

Listening to the thm debate, it feels like this is probably also the case for thm.

[Jinko]

If they reduce MP costs, or allow us more means to regain MP back they will reduce the damage the nukes do to balance it out. Essentially we will be hitting more buttons to do the same DPS. Spamming.

I would much prefer spamming skills to standing doing nothing and to be honest I doubt it would be quite as bad as that.

Problem with this dev team is that they always do things the old school way, if you look at any other MMO out there mages are generally very active and still require decent MP management.

I think the dev team need to go back and design mana regen around the amount of pie you have as a character.

As I said several pages back I would much prefer lower damage output and being able to sustain a long fight whilst being constantly active through the fight than what we currently have.

That being said I appreciate that these changes have been balanced with BLM in mind and convert will make a massive difference, as will BRD's refresh so come 1.21 everything may work out, although in that case BLM may then be too overpowered.