Two Months of BLU: Discuss!

[Auryan]

While I don't personally care for your (Shougun) version, I do prefer it to Kalise's, which feels more like downplaying and slowly removing the limited aspects from BLU in order to make it into a standard job.

My main gripe with your version is that you're reducing the limited aspect to bard's music playing. As some small and quite insignificant feature. And to me, the limited side is what captures my attention. I would likely just lvl a standard BLU to max and then ignore it. Like I did with RDM.

I have little interest in the fan creations of standard BLU. If it means I can keep limited BLU and other people can main it, great. However, if the standard part is too dominant and the limited some half forgotten after thought, I'm less likely to support it.

This also counts for the other jobs.

[Shougun]

While I don't personally care for your (Shougun) version, I do prefer it to Kalise's, which feels more like downplaying and slowly removing the limited aspects from BLU in order to make it into a standard job.

My main gripe with your version is that you're reducing the limited aspect to bard's music playing. As some small and quite insignificant feature. And to me, the limited side is what captures my attention. I would likely just lvl a standard BLU to max and then ignore it. Like I did with RDM.

I have little interest in the fan creations of standard BLU. If it means I can keep limited BLU and other people can main it, great. However, if the standard part is too dominant and the limited some half forgotten after thought, I'm less likely to support it.

This also counts for the other jobs.

I think you misunderstood me then, if you believe limited is down played. In my version limited would be it's own creation of combo ing different abilities to create wild combos like one might see with legendary sets in diablo 3. It would allow people to join in without having to gear it up like a standard job (power level through ability collection).


I mean it's fine to not like it but literally the idea up plays limited concept not down, so there must be some miscommunication. Like significant levels lol.

[Physic]

I think you misunderstood me then, if you believe limited is down played. In my version limited would be it's own creation of combo ing different abilities to create wild combos like one might see with legendary sets in diablo 3. It would allow people to join in without having to gear it up like a standard job (power level through ability collection).


I mean it's fine to not like it but literally the idea up plays limited concept not down, so there must be some miscommunication. Like significant levels lol.

thats not a horrible idea, the limited part, but it doesnt particularly fit with the theme of blue, which is generally being an all around mage with highly powered, but very specific abilities. Blue is generally mostly about knowledge of enemy, and using the right skills. and lots of status/control

to me your idea sounds like a decent idea, but for a different or new limited job.

[Shougun]

My apologies. I worded that sentence weirdly. I was referring to Kalise's version as downplaying the limited traits.

Your ideas are fine, but why bring in Bard's song playing for comparison? SE barely remembers that it still exists.
Furthermore, you also wish to make BLU an OP solo job. Others may join, but they are unnecessary. Which goes against the social aspects of the current version. I want SE to improve in this regard, not reduce it.

If I misrepresented your ideas, I'm sorry and feel to correct me.

AH okay cool more clear now!

Yeah so I mentioned bard in that don't need to "main bard" in order to gain those side features (music), and that's why I referenced dancer and choreography. I'll add a little note to the post to clarify that so it's more clear! In this way I was looking for each job that's "advanced" (aka has a limited side) to bring content to players who don't even intend to main the "main job" side of things.

For example you could use Beastmaster's limited side to DoL and raise animals (shepard sort of system) and not have to keep it up as a main tier content to do so, puppet master giving you some minions you can personalize beyond any level a minion normally has right to be, these sorts of new systems not precluded to you just because you're not going to spend the current tier tomestone. You may argue that's true now but I was looking to make the slide in smoother than it is now even, by also encouraging play of the content via that ability quantity/power = ilvl concept.

In this philosophy every new limited portion of a job is a content piece for everyone (and quite unique from each other), and that's why I referenced choreography and the music system (which unfortunately some feels has been abandoned.. so I can see why mentioning bard could be confusing).

You are right though that in my design concept Blue Mage wouldn't need people.... That could definitely be a splitting point for us. But at least we're on the same page again I think .

I was thinking Blue Mage's on the limited side would go out, far and wide, across the land, to collect all the skills they could, to become the best there eve-.... yeah okay.. Anyway the idea was that a Blue Mage that collected all the skills would have a very high powerlevel for their "level", and that you could choose to party up to get spells you weren't quite ready for OR you could collect enough skills that your power level was high enough (and combos available to you) allow you to solo content. So theoretically the highest "ilevel" job in the game would be Blue Mage hands down, at least when more skills are added - but this also assumes you collect them all.

I like this particularly because that means spells you don't even intend to use are very important to you .

But.. yes, I just wanted it to be clear, right now the limited concept didn't rub me the right way and that I wanted to add to it so that it did. I wanted to empower the limited side to the point that I was like "I'd use that", and I thought that you know what could be helpful to players? If we had a job that came up through old content that people were worried was going to die and ensure that can't happen. Oh you're worried Eureka content will end and you can never get that emote? No worry, Blue Mage Limited is slowly creeping through content - once your bae blu gets there then that emote is yours (making sure limited blue cant do current content because that'd obviously cause problems).

Obviously to each their own on what they liked though . Might suggest you could use these OP blue mages with friends to work on ultimate content, especially the ones that just became accessible to blue mage~.

thats not a horrible idea, the limited part, but it doesnt particularly fit with the theme of blue, which is generally being an all around mage with highly powered, but very specific abilities. Blue is generally mostly about knowledge of enemy, and using the right skills. and lots of status/control

to me your idea sounds like a decent idea, but for a different or new limited job.

Fair enough . I'll admit the main driving force of the idea was turning limited concept into something people could fully justify being limited for. "There is no way you could ask for that to be not limited, but it's hilariously strong (even more than it is now) and it's fun to theorize what combos I can make when they add new spells next patch - my favorite currently is the thunderous bubble clap!". New skills meaning you dust off old builds or create entirely new ones, like when new cards come out that shake things up in a TCG or new legendary affix in a hack and slash game like D3. Something like that.

Obviously this concept is inwards focused, get your "cards" and make an interactive deck of legendary affixes vs focusing on what the monsters look like. I'd argue the concept of blue currently wouldn't do it anymore or less than my suggested changes since blue only does that in the carnival due to elemental resistance and I haven't suggested removing that, but I could imagine ideas (and have read ideas) that try to capture the "plan around your enemy" concept more.

[Anesteria]

Fair enough . I'll admit the main driving force of the idea was turning limited concept into something people could fully justify being limited for. "There is no way you could ask for that to be not limited, but it's hilariously strong and it's fun to theorize what combos I can make when they add new spells next patch - my favorite currently is the thunderous bubble clap!". Something like that.

The thing is that BLU is NOT a static monolith. There is not just one way the job would work, the only thing that defines it is the fact that it learns abilities from monsters and uses said abilities in what is usually considered "Blue Magic". There is nothing else that one has to strictly follow, nor a theme or a role.
If FFXIV would force BLU into a DPS role, then that would follow BLU's design as long as the monster part is maintained. The same would be for being a Tank or a Healer. It doesn't matter whether it's one or the other, or how complex the class would be, because that's just how it is and has been throughout the various games.

And for those who want to see BLU being opened up to be fully playable, I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to see it work.
This does not come at a cost of the "limited job" aspect, as we've worked out, it only depends on whether SE would be willing to put in the effort.

[Auryan]

- snip-

I was a bit harsh earlier when I said that I didn't care for your ideas. I think a lot of it is interesting, they just don't align with my fantasies for these jobs. And I think that's why these kind of topics are so difficult to discuss since everyone has a job fantasy they wish could come true. And then reality hits and it just reaches an almost personal area.

And thanks for clarifying the part about the Bard music playing. I understand what you were going with now. Which is like I said earlier, all very interesting. Where I differ is that the ilvl part seems to walk back on the social interactions of the current BLU. I really loved that about the gathering part where people would just create parties to hunt for spells. It also was a blast getting to tank a dungeon as BLU and watching as the rest keep everyone alive with WW or crowd control. The fact that it was the job where people actually communicated with each other is what I love about it. And I want SE to nurture that.

I do like your shepherd idea, but feel that it's probably a better idea to put that as a brand new DoL job than a limited. Maybe as a part of Farmer. I've been reading more people mentioning an idea like that for a while now. I think you should theory craft some potential gathering or crafting jobs to add to the game. I would enjoy reading it.

[Shougun]

I was a bit harsh earlier when I said that I didn't care for your ideas. I think a lot of it is interesting, they just don't align with my fantasies for these jobs. And I think that's why these kind of topics are so difficult to discuss since everyone has a job fantasy they wish could come true. And then reality hits and it just reaches an almost personal area.

And thanks for clarifying the part about the Bard music playing. I understand what you were going with now. Which is like I said earlier, all very interesting. Where I differ is that the ilvl part seems to walk back on the social interactions of the current BLU. I really loved that about the gathering part where people would just create parties to hunt for spells. It also was a blast getting to tank a dungeon as BLU and watching as the rest keep everyone alive with WW or crowd control. The fact that it was the job where people actually communicated with each other is what I love about it. And I want SE to nurture that.

I do like your shepherd idea, but feel that it's probably a better idea to put that as a brand new DoL job than a limited. Maybe as a part of Farmer. I've been reading more people mentioning an idea like that for a while now. I think you should theory craft some potential gathering or crafting jobs to add to the game. I would enjoy reading it.

Totally respect that, also thanks for being so kind. My favorite forum interactions don't need to be in full hand clasped dancing in agreement just not like "YOUR IDEA IS DUMB DUMB" lol (disagreeing isn't that, I mean insulting each other of course). Being friendly trying to see eye to eye even if it doesn't mean full on board is more fun. Kalise I feel definitely has the more social idea so I can see why that's seen as a friendly concept. I did suggest you could take your OPness, or your underleveled-ness (due to missing skills), and still have fun with friends (either because you're duo-ing raids/savage/ultimate content or because you haven't collected enough spells) but you're right that the end result of a /very/ strong limited blue mage (in my vision of it) would reduce social aspect of the limited side (such that our fully decked out lvl 50, nearly or all skills learned, blue mages right now should easily be able to solo all lvl 50 ex and below content).

Definitely reaches a personal area~! I agree, like I respect the simplicity of the other suggested idea here but it doesn't appear to be in a way that sparks my interest (which while I /want/ to be interested in blue, having liked it before, it's true that not all content has to be enjoyed by all players - myself included). That said I'm sure we can all admit sometimes we just don't "see it" until we feel it first hand - so I'm willing to admit I could be wrong, just not seeing it right now.

I might make a shepherd thread at some point then ! I have a few other threads I want to work on too though so not sure when lol. Like my chocobo upgrade thread I'd like to do a mog "update" thread in similar approach, new Sil'Dah raid idea, cid raid, geomancer mage tank (inspired by at least), open world remix for leve content pipeline (high value open world content, but doesn't mess with repeat-spam issues), a reinheart subligar quest idea (just a fun quest dedicated to our old translater), fix up and clarify my memory friendly glamour log and token replacement suggestion, and maybe add another concept to the tackle box pile lol. Also probably need to add a few lines to the Magitek thread once Noct's car comes out, and the airship/chocobo thread sometime soon.

Question, hopefully people don't feel too off topic but, is the reason for being concerned about the shepherd being built into limited because it wouldn't be fully featured or anything else?

One of the reasons I thought it might be neat is each of these "advanced jobs" coming with their own limited system (besides giving SE an excuse to add new systems to the game) could also mean different types of progression (like with Blue Mage you'd level faster due to the shared relationship to the limited side and it's exp bonus, but it balanced out due to looking for some of your DF approved spells). For a very "meh" example you can level summoner and that levels your scholar, this doesn't create massive issues - bad players be bad good players figure it out. So in this you could be a big fan of DoL but want a job to experience MSQ/combat too.

Certainly they could be separated but I believe you could get all the features you wanted to add to the DoL side under the Beastmaster job as well, and in this allow Beastmaster that feeling of being master of beasts (like blue mage would have the feeling of being able to learn hundreds of skills) while also allowing them to play part in normal content. The balanced side having the types of controls SE needs to make sure a job isn't OP or unbalance-able compared to other jobs. It would definitely be a different experience, I think, if you could make your DoL your "main" like that, and because it's a limited type "DoL" it isn't expected to follow the same rules as the other two DoL in how it works and can/can't do. Which is a good and bad thing, for example people who wanted to get into it without getting blue, red, yellow scrips vs perhaps people who did. If I get to writing the thread maybe I'd write it in such a way that the Shepard could be smoothly excised from the beastmaster and placed alone, if one (or SE) thought better to do that.