Please make Blue Mage a normal job

[ReiMakoto]

This interview is making me so angry.

"It's difficult because Blue Magic is learnt through enemies" then why wouldn't job quest have us fight specific enemies to get specific actions, ensuring they fit in the rotation?
"being not limited is a problem because blue magic has to be toned down to fit the current raids" Sure, you can definitely solo T13 synched with a Blue Mage right now.

Joke aside, I think their position is inconsistant.
They wanted it to be a TRUE Blue Mage, faithful to its legacy (I think the closest one is FF5 Blue mage), with the idea that you need to learn abilities from monsters, and have powerful blue magic.
Yet they introduce tweaks to make it fit FFXIV so learning Blue Magic is not guaranteed (and most of the time RNG unfair), and Blue Magic is not THAT powerful (with most enemies immune to effects, elemental weaknesses inexistant apart from Masked Carnival)

How detrimental would it have been if the "FFXIV tweaks" were :
- Learning actions by job quests ("Hey noob, come back when you've learnt 1000 spikes and Glower"; I mean, many players go through content without actions locked by HW job quests so it would not be BLU only)
- Keeping blue spells that only make a real rotation (like Ram / Dragon combo, Primal actions) and tune their potencies to make it even with casters, and get rid of spells that are useless in a raid context.

That scenario might have had a few people annoyed because "it does not feel like BLU", yet it would be a perfectly playable and balanced caster job...

BLU was the victim of people complaining that RDM,SMN,DRK ect weren't true to their source. So they picked the job with the most inconsistent identity to make true to its identity to please these people. Galaxy brain plays

[Physic]

This interview is making me so angry.

"It's difficult because Blue Magic is learnt through enemies" then why wouldn't job quest have us fight specific enemies to get specific actions, ensuring they fit in the rotation?
"being not limited is a problem because blue magic has to be toned down to fit the current raids" Sure, you can definitely solo T13 synched with a Blue Mage right now.

Joke aside, I think their position is inconsistant.
They wanted it to be a TRUE Blue Mage, faithful to its legacy (I think the closest one is FF5 Blue mage), with the idea that you need to learn abilities from monsters, and have powerful blue magic.
Yet they introduce tweaks to make it fit FFXIV so learning Blue Magic is not guaranteed (and most of the time RNG unfair), and Blue Magic is not THAT powerful (with most enemies immune to effects, elemental weaknesses inexistant apart from Masked Carnival)

How detrimental would it have been if the "FFXIV tweaks" were :
- Learning actions by job quests ("Hey noob, come back when you've learnt 1000 spikes and Glower"; I mean, many players go through content without actions locked by HW job quests so it would not be BLU only)
- Keeping blue spells that only make a real rotation (like Ram / Dragon combo, Primal actions) and tune their potencies to make it even with casters, and get rid of spells that are useless in a raid context.

That scenario might have had a few people annoyed because "it does not feel like BLU", yet it would be a perfectly playable and balanced caster job...

but who wants another caster that plays the same way, with slightly different skill animations. what would make blu different if you dont hunt the skills, and they dont have the weird extra effects/rules? they arent different in execution. its just the aquisition, and the weirdness/situational skills.

[MrKimper]

I agree with this. I have started calling them Disciples of Collection offhand, just because it makes so much more sense to me. That way we can have special weapons and gear, Disciple of collection roulettes, and other content designed specifically for the discipline (rather than each limited job separately). It also gets rid of the awful name "limited job" which should never have been finalised, especially since every other piece of content gets a stupid lore specific name whether it needs it or not.

I think disciples of lore would sound good or something.

[MrKimper]

but who wants another caster that plays the same way, with slightly different skill animations. what would make blu different if you dont hunt the skills, and they dont have the weird extra effects/rules? they arent different in execution. its just the aquisition, and the weirdness/situational skills.

This argument again.

Because summoner plays the same as black mage? because red mage plays the same as black mage, because black mage played the same as bard and mechanist when they had castbars.

Stop making this comparison because it's like saying EVERY melee dps plays the same and EVERY healer and tank play the same. It's just factually not true.

[ReiMakoto]

but who wants another caster that plays the same way, with slightly different skill animations. what would make blu different if you dont hunt the skills, and they dont have the weird extra effects/rules? they arent different in execution. its just the aquisition, and the weirdness/situational skills.

This is a reductive argument, BLU could be made to play differently, a prime example is using the spells off the GCD like off guard and Peculiar light. More of these could be added in conjuncture with more 1 sec cast time gcd abilities to make a job that revolves around rapid short casts, with the flavour of being enemy skills. They could implement a job gauge that makes use of elemental weaknesses and the such. The only way BLU would play the same as other casters is if they made it play the same as other casters, and depending on your definition of playing the same, new classes get ruled out entirely, will gunbreaker be just another tank?

[Physic]

This argument again.

Because summoner plays the same as black mage? because red mage plays the same as black mage, because black mage played the same as bard and mechanist when they had castbars.

Stop making this comparison because it's like saying EVERY melee dps plays the same and EVERY healer and tank play the same. It's just factually not true.

most of the tank play is too similar imo.

but the point is that for blumage the things that make it special are what i mentioned. all suggestions on how to make blumage regular classes are generic and boring. So how are you suggesting they make it not generic? because all suggestions i have seen are super generic.

[Anesteria]

the interview you linked says the opposite of them letting it collect dust, it will get new skills and level cap increases and new content. As well he says the primary reason its not a main job is because doing so would require the job to be less than it should be.

What I said is that they're going to let it collect dust "as much as possible". Which doesn't mean it will never be touched again, they simply will do everything slowly, they will delay any updates until they need to fill a void in content because they ran out of ideas.

Even then, the interviews themselves as I said, are vague because the language used is vague. "It will get new skills and level cap" no one is arguing that it won't. What is being argued about is the pace, talking about the lvl 70 in Shadowbringers. That putting ALL the information we've been given, including the one about 80 being "very unlikely" which ultimately means that BLU will still be lagging behind anyway, it is not a wild guess to assume that 60 will be what BLU will live with 90% of the expansion and potentially ALL of it.
Why? Because everything is kept vague and indefinite. If you can read between the lines that's all there is to take. Which also means that if so much is inconclusive, then they're still pondering what to do with it, which is why showing support for BLU to be a full job is still something that we can do. They knew it wasn't going to be received as well as they said, they did the same with Eureka, although Eureka is a different matter because it's not an advanced class.

And even then, in regards to the other stuff you say, you have to then ask yourself if people really would have taken up arms like this if they implemented BLU as a normal job. Would people have been upset that it wasn't a "limited job" with a Carnival? No! Because people wanted BLU as yet another job and didn't envision this.
However, the second the "limited job" system was announced, people already started to criticise it because it's not what the people demanding BLU wanted and look how it turned out. So now we are here in a situation that was completely avoidable, where people wouldn't be complaining and everyone would be on their way had the job been treated fairly.

Also, it's been said already, what defines BLU is the fact that it takes abilities from monsters and uses said magic. It doesn't have to be a super amazing complex system that for some reason has to be "unique". Perfection does not, and cannot exist, it only has to be good enough and complete.

[Physic]

This is a reductive argument, BLU could be made to play differently, a prime example is using the spells off the GCD like off guard and Peculiar light. More of these could be added in conjuncture with more 1 sec cast time gcd abilities to make a job that revolves around rapid short casts, with the flavour of being enemy skills. They could implement a job gauge that makes use of elemental weaknesses and the such. The only way BLU would play the same as other casters is if they made it play the same as other casters, and depending on your definition of playing the same, new classes get ruled out entirely, will gunbreaker be just another tank?

sorry off gcd skills arent unique, and dont give a very different feel. To be honest, there is already way too much similarity in playstyle for most classes even now, imo.

mele dps had 2 3 part chains, 1 aoe chain, some off cooldown skills. Tanks get 20% dmg reduction, 1 enimity combo. some dmg reducers. i want more unique jobsand likely only jobs that break the system can be unique, cause a lot of the similarities are based around balance.

[ReiMakoto]

sorry off gcd skills arent unique, and dont give a very different feel. To be honest, there is already way too much similarity in playstyle for most classes even now, imo.

mele dps had 2 3 part chains, 1 aoe chain, some off cooldown skills. Tanks get 20% dmg reduction, 1 enimity combo. some dmg reducers. i want more unique jobsand likely only jobs that break the system can be unique, cause a lot of the similarities are based around balance.

Off globals are common, off globals with cast times are not, they are unique to BLU, (bard used to have one but not anymore)

[Jandor]

but who wants another caster that plays the same way, with slightly different skill animations. what would make blu different if you dont hunt the skills, and they dont have the weird extra effects/rules? they arent different in execution. its just the aquisition, and the weirdness/situational skills.

Blue Mage doesn't actually play all that different to the other casters anyway, it's actually kinda boring tbh as it doesn't even have a quirky little mini-game gauge to manage like the other jobs.

I think disciples of lore would sound good or something.

That does sound pretty good. Certainly much better than limited job.