Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

[Rockette]

Having said that, due to the abovementioned issues and other things we’ve learned through your feedback, we’ve caused our players a great deal of stress, and this is something we deeply regret. We’ve been made to realize there are many things we can change and improve upon. We’re determined to correct all the major issues and take the experience with us when we develop future content.

I'm glad this is something that has been a learning experience for everyone with the implentation of something new. Just means its going to get better from here. I'll link Yoshi's reply in my OP

[BillyKaplan]

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply here, Yoshida, as well as Nakagawa. The changes to the entry to the Arsenal sound like they'll address a lot of the community concerns, which I hope will work out.
This one thing bothers me still, however.

Rather than being a “true ending” or an “epilogue,” we sought to depict the events following the Baldesion Arsenal as a happy accident.

But it is still a story detail that exists in the game. And Eureka is a place where you encourage players to interact with each other and share information - of course word of those additional scenes would spread. And it is my understanding that this aforementioned scene is guilty of what so many scenes in your game are also guilty of - making what few choices we do have in this game moot and void. Basically it doesn't matter because the end result will be the same, or close enough, regardless of what we choose. And that is the status quo that many people do leave Eureka with - a different story status quo from those who did not clear the Arsenal.
It was my impression that normal mode raids were introduced after ARR's Coils because you didn't want to lock story behind high-level content, but you ended up doing exactly this once again (though I will concede, much less of it). While I agree that players who clear Savage are rightly entitled to more awards than those who don't, I believe additional story - or "happy accidents" - should not be part of that. What happened here sets a very concerning precedent in my opinion, and I truly hope you will keep this incident in mind so such "happy accidents" will not happen again. I'm not telling you not to put scenes after such feats, just don't have them be as meaningful as this one.

[Raisek]

Firstly, regarding the feedback on the story that unfolds upon clearing the Baldesion Arsenal. As I mentioned in earlier interviews and announcements, I personally didn’t see it as an additional story or ending, and greenlit the content in its current state. However, my words proved to be misleading to those who felt there was a story, and for that I apologize.

During development, the team deliberated this at great length. The scenes that follow the Baldesion Arsenal wouldn’t be experienced by everyone, but only by those who make a certain choice in regards to a character’s question and then go on to complete the dungeon. If you choose differently, you would not see these scenes.

However, no matter how you respond to the question, the Eureka story ends at that point. Those who’ve played through the story will know that you have to make a tough decision. In proceeding with the current spec, we believed that players would’ve come to terms with their decision and the consequences. And no matter what players choose, they would experience a clear ending before to moving on to the Baldesion Arsenal. Based on this, it was my belief that the Eureka story concludes there.

Rather than being a “true ending” or an “epilogue,” we sought to depict the events following the Baldesion Arsenal as a happy accident. This is because it’s impossible to predict such an outcome when you’re faced with the abovementioned tough decision. And if the choice you made left an unpleasant aftertaste, then that was as we had intended.

But regardless of our intentions, the way we implemented the content has been the subject of considerable criticism, and we’re taking it all to heart. I will also endeavor to take greater care with how I explain things. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

You say that, yet the 'Really Making the Most of Hydatos' achievement is described as 'Truly complete all the story objectives within the Forbidden Land, Eureka Hydatos.' You can see why everybody, myself included, treats the last bit of story scenes after BA as the true ending. It's no "happy accident".

[AnnaMolly]

This is a pretty common thing
If they are willing to join discord and co-operate its fine but if not generally just let them die

Late but the issue on that one is that there are a few mechanics that, if done badly, can wipe a party. Orbs, dice, meteors, etc. The "let them die" idea is in hopes that if they get themselves killed, they don't take an entire party with them. Not really as devious as it sounds.

[Shadows_Arrowny]

I've actually stopped doing BA altogether. I have Kirin's Osode and full elemental +2 gear for my tank and almost 30 fragments toward the 100 for the weapon. I've lead several fragment runs and Ozma prog groups. I've been a leader in attempted Ozma clear groups. But I'm honestly just tired of it all.

I'm tired of the 1.5-2 hrs it can take to zone into the dungeon. I've gotten Ozma to 40% three times only to wipe to one person failing accel. bomb and/or meteor. And now that it's been a couple weeks, the primary Aether BA discord largely only has people putting Ozma clear/farm groups together with the requirement of proof of clear and/or explanation from previous leader on why the run failed (a.k.a. they wanna make sure it wasn't you that caused the wipe).

Now I understand wanting to farm it and not spend all this time getting in and more time getting back to Ozma only to have someone wipe 55 people at 40%. I wasn't happy when I leading an Ozma prog group and 1/3 of the people lied about having cleared AV.

I just don't have patience for the people putting super strict requirements on joining their group for a PUBLIC dungeon. I don't have patience leading these myself anymore--whether or not it's to help others. I don't have patience for spending 1.5-2 hrs to just get into the dungeon.

I say this as someone who loved Eureka from the beginning. On paper, Hydatos and BA are exactly what I wanted and more out of this experience begun in Anemos. Sadly, and I really mean that (sadly), this experience just doesn't bring me joy. Getting into BA is so punishing, that I experience nothing but dread, anxiety, stress, regret and disappointment with it now.

I just want three changes to this type of content in the future. I love the logos action system--brilliant, fun, rewarding, and strategic. I love the inability to raise people--a wonderful introduction to new combat experiences in XIV's style. But please change these three issues--and #1 is an ABSOLUTE MUST:

1) Allow full party finder and duty finder support (full 8-player parties and full 24/32-person alliance queue together). Don't make repeating the dungeon so punishing that it feels more punishing to enter than the dungeon than to fail the dungeon.

2) Lower the amount of people to more reasonable/manageable counts (24-32 people). It can't handle too many anyway as AV puddles disappear at times.

3) Don't format it in a way that can easily turn players against each other (fighting for access, needing others to do a support FATE, etc. Never underestimate the pettiness, grief, and spite players will have [on both sides] due to their sense of entitlement)

[Shadows_Arrowny]

Might even add (3.1) to my third request: If this combat is dangerous because you can't be raised, maybe stay away from mechanics where one person can kill others so easily (Ozma). I'm totally content with a fight that's dangerous enough that someone cannot be carried through it. I think that's a great idea. But it's irritating when my success in the dungeon is incredibly contingent upon someone else's ability to follow seemingly simple mechanics. It's for this reason that I've lost a lot of interest in what I previously thought was one of the most interesting mounts in the game. Sure it's beautiful, but the journey to it is so unfulfilling and not achievement based as you're at someone else's mercy. So, yeah, getting killed by other people really sucks. It might not suck as much if I could reasonably access and repeat the dungeon with ease, to be fair.

[Rockette]

While it does suck to be killed due to someone else failing mechanics, I think the problem here still lies in the instances accessibility. Had you been able to queue again, perhaps thta penalty wouldn't seem as harsh. However right now, if you die, you're looking at another 3 - 4 hours at least just to get in which is the wrong kind of stress I assume Yoshi is talking about.

[HyoMinPark]

And now that it's been a couple weeks, the primary Aether BA discord largely only has people putting Ozma clear/farm groups together with the requirement of proof of clear and/or explanation from previous leader on why the run failed (a.k.a. they wanna make sure it wasn't you that caused the wipe).

There seems to be one group that organizes clears/farms in this way. There are plenty others that do not require screenshot proof/video proof/stream proof/whatever. I got my Ozma clear from the latter type of group, organized in that same Discord. However, given that 2/5 of my tries for Ozma prog/clear before I actually cleared it involved players that have not even been to AV trying to join Ozma progression, a part of me can understand wanting to see proof of progression...

[Genz]

If Eureka has been a challenge for the dev team, there is a severe problem with the dev process.

[Hyperia]

What are the differences between JP and NA/EU that Yoshi was mentioning?