Red Mage Rumor Mill

[HyoMinPark]

Which is why I think the focus of the role should be on utility (which includes healing and raising). WHM, as pure healer, can still fit, and can even add in bard and maybe red mage, just give them (more) healing ability.

I disagree that "utility" includes basic healing of a party and raising party members. Healers healing isn't "utility" in the sense that a BRD's support tools are "utility". Or even in the sense that AST cards are "utility".

Grouping the healers with BRD and RDM into a Support role would require revamping of the Duty Finder matching system. Because you'd have to assure that parties still get a proper healer, so you couldn't do "1 tank, 1 support, 2 DPS", and if they don't have a different identifier for healers versus BRD/RDM, that could spell problems (Imagine getting a party with WAR, NIN, BLM, BRD - because BRD surely doesn't have healing tools to keep a party alive, and I don't think they need skills for it; all I'd want to see "healer-like" for BRD is the return of healer LB3 for both BRD and MCH, because physical ranged LB3 is never used anyways). For RDM, Vercuring individuals in lieu of a healer is not their main purpose. Vercure itself is not used as part of any normal rotation.

I don't see the need for healers and BRD+RDM to be grouped into a "Support" role. But, then again, I don't see much need for a "Support" or "Utility" role either. Too many jobs already have support capabilities, and almost all have some form of utility - just some less so than others.

[linay]

I disagree that "utility" includes basic healing of a party and raising party members. Healers healing isn't "utility" in the sense that a BRD's support tools are "utility". Or even in the sense that AST cards are "utility".

Grouping the healers with BRD and RDM into a Support role would require revamping of the Duty Finder matching system. Because you'd have to assure that parties still get a proper healer, so you couldn't do "1 tank, 1 support, 2 DPS", and if they don't have a different identifier for healers versus BRD/RDM, that could spell problems (Imagine getting a party with WAR, NIN, BLM, BRD - because BRD surely doesn't have healing tools to keep a party alive, and I don't think they need skills for it; all I'd want to see "healer-like" for BRD is the return of healer LB3 for both BRD and MCH, because physical ranged LB3 is never used anyways). For RDM, Vercuring individuals in lieu of a healer is not their main purpose. Vercure itself is not used as part of any normal rotation.

I don't see the need for healers and BRD+RDM to be grouped into a "Support" role. But, then again, I don't see much need for a "Support" or "Utility" role either. Too many jobs already have support capabilities, and almost all have some form of utility - just some less so than others.

Well, obviously it wouldn't work just to put them together as is. A lot of things need to be reworked, which is perfect for a new expansion. I do think it's better to keep utility more confined to one role rather than having too many jobs with support capabilities.

And yes, obviously every job in the support role would have to be healers because you can't not have healers. Then again, I see people saying that healers have a lot of free time outside of healing anyway, so this would give more things to do other than healing.

In other words, I guess what I'm really saying is give healers more utilities and things to do that can contribute to the party's overall performance outside of just additional DPS. The only reason I say to add bard/rdm is to not make it a conflict between utility in healer/support and utility in DPS roles.

Or if the other roles should have some utility as well, then restrict it to one or two shielding utility in tank and offensive utility in DPS and then put everything else on healer/support. (Actually, why do healers have shields anyways? Give them to tanks.)