Did the devs lie to us? Either actually make BLU OP, or unlock it

[Iscah]

I find it very hard to believe that they deliberately lied. That they deliberately created a unique job design that was mediocre and tried to sell it as amazing when they could actually make it amazing for the same amount of work and a whole lot more player satisfaction.

Maybe they're out of step with their playerbase and really do think it's a good design. Maybe it's a "cultural difference" and all their playtesters agreed it was a good design.

Whatever it is, something has gone wrong between how they described it and what we actually got, but I will assume lack of awareness over actual malice.

[Shougun]

Let's consult a dictionary.

Personally I don't believe SE purposefully mislead their audience (did not attempt to lie to us). I do think whatever expectation they had of their audience was off from what people were hoping for though.

I'm still very confused on the statistic Yoshida mentioned in an interview, certainly I could be in a bubble but it really seems to be the opposite of his presented data (in game, reddit, youtube, and the forums). I wouldn't say they lied but unintentionally mislead might be accurate.

I find it very hard to believe that they deliberately lied. . . . Maybe they're out of step with their playerbase and really do think it's a good design. Maybe it's a "cultural difference" and all their playtesters agreed it was a good design. . . but I will assume lack of awareness over actual malice.

I agree with this greatly. I would/will be exceptionally worried about the future of FFXIV if I believed that they did this out any sort of malice or attempt to purposefully mislead... That's a really bad sign.

I find it more likely they weren't in sync, perhaps even internally even. One of my suspicions is this is mostly one person's passion project (with help here and there), so perhaps they've got a very particular design mindset or were given very tight reigns.

[Evogolist]

I find it very hard to believe that they deliberately lied. That they deliberately created a unique job design that was mediocre and tried to sell it as amazing when they could actually make it amazing for the same amount of work and a whole lot more player satisfaction.

Maybe they're out of step with their playerbase and really do think it's a good design. Maybe it's a "cultural difference" and all their playtesters agreed it was a good design.

Whatever it is, something has gone wrong between how they described it and what we actually got, but I will assume lack of awareness over actual malice.

I have a character that I play on Yojimbo server which is mostly a JPN server and I can tell you, almost the whole server was running Blu when it launched last Tuesday. By the weekend though there were only a handful still running Blu. All the ARR zones were back to being dead again. Even where the Masked Carnival NPC is, there's maybe like one or two people there at a time, not to mention I haven't seen a single PF up for Primal Spells. My Japanese isn't fluent, but I would say they aren't too fond of BLU either, so it's definitely not a difference in culture.

I said this in another thread, but I guess I'll say it here too. It's painfully obvious to see that the framework for BLU to be a normal job is there. Job Quests requiring you to go learn certain spells in order to progress, needing a party to acquire said spells, because said spells are locked in dungeons with a horrible RNG learning rate. All they would need to do is force BLU to go out and acquire any particular spell every 5-10 lvls (increase the learning rate of said spells of course) and the only excuse ppl would have for not having their tool kit in DF and Raids would be what we have now, players that just didn't care in the first place.

The thing that I can see that even remotely makes BLU OP or broken is the fact that there's no level lock on the spells and so certain spells such as White Wind and 1k needles can be acquired at level 1. If they (the devs) are just going to give every spell to us at level 1, than why even level blu in the first place? So we can suffer through horrible RNG when trying to get spells from old content nobody does anymore?

[Iscah]

I have a character that I play on Yojimbo server which is mostly a JPN server and I can tell you, almost the whole server was running Blu when it launched last Tuesday. By the weekend though there were only a handful still running Blu. All the ARR zones were back to being dead again. Even where the Masked Carnival NPC is, there's maybe like one or two people there at a time, not to mention I haven't seen a single PF up for Primal Spells. My Japanese isn't fluent, but I would say they aren't too fond of BLU either, so it's definitely not a difference in culture.

I'm also on a Japanese server - Elemental group, which I don't think includes Yojimbo.

It's inevitable that it'll be busiest on first release, and after the rush fades you won't see the same concentration, because people have finished their open-world leveling and skills, at which point there's no reason to remain 'out in the open', and are probably hacking away at primal skills if they're still interested. I'm still seeing PFs posted, not that I check all that frequently, but people are also organising to do it with friends or FC members so you won't see all that's going on.

(Also at least on Unicorn server this week, I had to go to northern Thanalan for some quests with my alt character, and there was a fair-sized hunt group chasing the B-rank mark all over the map trying to get its skill. And people still powerleveling in other areas - could not get my hunt marks on the Isles of Umbra because a blue-and-scholar team were wiping out everything on the island. )

I'm not especially defending it, but "there are less people than there were on launch day" isn't a fair argument against the popularity of anything.

[Evogolist]

I'm also on a Japanese server - Elemental group, which I don't think includes Yojimbo.

It's inevitable that it'll be busiest on first release, and after the rush fades you won't see the same concentration, because people have finished their open-world leveling and skills, at which point there's no reason to remain 'out in the open', and are probably hacking away at primal skills if they're still interested. I'm still seeing PFs posted, not that I check all that frequently, but people are also organising to do it with friends or FC members so you won't see all that's going on.

(Also at least on Unicorn server this week, I had to go to northern Thanalan for some quests with my alt character, and there was a fair-sized hunt group chasing the B-rank mark all over the map trying to get its skill. And people still powerleveling in other areas - could not get my hunt marks on the Isles of Umbra because a blue-and-scholar team were wiping out everything on the island. )

I'm not especially defending it, but "there are less people than there were on launch day" isn't a fair argument against the popularity of anything.

I did an edit of my last post and posted a bit more, but I do agree with your last statement. However, I've also heard from some others here on the forums that things aren't so cool on the JPN forums, but again...just hearsay. Like I said, my Japanese isn't fluent and I'm still learning, so I'll take back the first part of last post, since I can't speak for them. Just thought I'd offer my observations from my side of Eorzea.

[Deceptus]

I said this in another thread, but I guess I'll say it here too. It's painfully obvious to see that the framework for BLU to be a normal job is there. Job Quests requiring you to go learn certain spells in order to progress, needing a party to acquire said spells, because said spells are locked in dungeons with a horrible RNG learning rate. All they would need to do is force BLU to go out and acquire any particular spell every 5-10 lvls (increase the learning rate of said spells of course) and the only excuse ppl would have for not having their tool kit in DF and Raids would be what we have now, players that just didn't care in the first place.

And it wouldn't be hard to get a good spell baseline. They've already got the structure, they just need to add more spells to the learn requirement.

Lvl 10 quest: Learn Blood Drain, Ice Spikes, Bomb Toss, Toad Oil, Sticky Tongue
Lvl 20 quest: Learn Bristle, Final Sting, Acorn Bomb, Self Destruct, Mind Blast (your first AoE)
Lvl 30 quest: Learn Bad Breath, Flying Sardine, Faze, 1000 needles
Lvl 40 quest: Learn Peculiar Light
Lvl 50 quest: Learn Drill Cannons, Glower

There. You now have a decent ability base that can do any dungeon. The only dungeon required is Aurum Vale, and Tam Tara for your first AoE.

This completely negates the argument, "They can't be relied on to know spell X, Y, Z". You force it. If you want to participate in the Masked Carnivale, you learn those spells at a minimum.

What about all the invulnerabilities mobs have? Easily fixable as well. BLU spells are similar to a copy of the mob spell. Just allow the debuff to stick but not do anything. BLU Petrify adds the debuff but doesn't petrify the mobs. You can play with however long the debuff lasts for balancing. If it were me, it's be similar to a buff like Slash Resistance down where it sticks on the mob for a while. That would also help BLU's lowered damage.

Imagine actually having use of Petrify and four or so casts of Drill Cannons. Would that make BLU OP? Yes. Wasn't that the point?

[Evogolist]

And it wouldn't be hard to get a good spell baseline. They've already got the structure, they just need to add more spells to the learn requirement.

Lvl 10 quest: Learn Blood Drain, Ice Spikes, Bomb Toss, Toad Oil, Sticky Tongue
Lvl 20 quest: Learn Bristle, Final Sting, Acorn Bomb, Self Destruct, Mind Blast (your first AoE)
Lvl 30 quest: Learn Bad Breath, Flying Sardine, Faze, 1000 needles
Lvl 40 quest: Learn Peculiar Light
Lvl 50 quest: Learn Drill Cannons, Glower

There. You now have a decent ability base that can do any dungeon. The only dungeon required is Aurum Vale, and Tam Tara for your first AoE.

This completely negates the argument, "They can't be relied on to know spell X, Y, Z". You force it. If you want to participate in the Masked Carnivale, you learn those spells at a minimum.

What about all the invulnerabilities mobs have? Easily fixable as well. BLU spells are similar to a copy of the mob spell. Just allow the debuff to stick but not do anything. BLU Petrify adds the debuff but doesn't petrify the mobs. You can play with however long the debuff lasts for balancing. If it were me, it's be similar to a buff like Slash Resistance down where it sticks on the mob for a while. That would also help BLU's lowered damage.

Imagine actually having use of Petrify and four or so casts of Drill Cannons. Would that make BLU OP? Yes. Wasn't that the point?

Exactly, and to keep spells such Self Destruct, Final Sting, and White Wind from being OP, put some sort of restrictions on them. For example, while White Wind can cure the caster for the total amount of caster's HP, it's potency of it is halved/decreased when it's used in a party setting. This way Healer type classes such as Whm, Sch, and Ast aren't kicked to the curb for a BLU. With Self destruct and Final Sting, sure they could knock out a decent chunk of dmg on a trash mob, but in boss fights, they wouldn't be the optimal choice of spells to use. Or like in XI, the BLU is given a weakened debuff with HP/MP/DMG being lowered for a few seconds.

There's really so many ways to work around the whole BLU being game breaking and balancing issues, that it's mind boggling that they (the devs) can't seem to figure it out. From my understanding, Yoshi-P is also helping with XI, so I don't see why, if they haven't already, he and the XIV devs can't consult with the XI dev team to find a way to properly balance BLU.