My Idea For Fixing Blue Mage

[Kazrah]

You haven't given me a reason why it can't have both just that chained and unchained are different.. which of course they are - that is the point there.

Because chained means they'd have to go learn those abilities and would likely be exiled by other players from group content until the player spent the work to go learn those spells. Not only is it roughly the response Yoshi had in regard to why Blue Mage is barred from Duty Finder content, but planning for the worst behavior of users is just a basic element of smart programming.

Ultimately, you can either have a job work like any other or you can have a job work like Blue Mage will. You can't have both because of just how horrible players can potentially be with any new system.

[Shougun]

Because chained means they'd have to go learn those abilities and would likely be exiled by other players from group content until the player spent the work to go learn those spells. Not only is it roughly the response Yoshi had in regard to why Blue Mage is barred from Duty Finder content, but planning for the worst behavior of users is just a basic element of smart programming.

Ultimately, you can either have a job work like any other or you can have a job work like Blue Mage will. You can't have both because of just how horrible players can potentially be with any new system.

I did add you'd have to learn them before joining DF*, therefore players wouldn't be toxic to a blue mage because if you see a blue mage then you'd know they have those skills. So your issue about mean players won't be one . Also I believe that should be true for all jobs, not just blue mage (no joining end content without your important spells).

*Within reason say a few levels or so difference is fine (particularly thinking leniency for leveling dungeons) but if you're level 70 you can't queue as a conjurer (in DF, particularly thinking no leniency for level cap trials/end game content), as an extreme example. If there is a level 26-30 leveling dungeon you can't join missing level 20 skills, but you could join missing level 27 skill (and learn it in said dungeon if the monster is there). If there is a level 70 ex primal you can't join unless you know /all/ the skills part of your chained skill set (and should be true for all jobs).

I believe you can have both because I already said you'd program it in such a way due to smart programming. Also Blue Mage could easily handle getting skills alone due to their unchained portion, being able to solo and PF..

So I still haven't received a reason on why it couldn't work, chain and unchained together, especially given even if your point was true (Blue Mage sometimes ostracized, which it wouldn't if the DF mechanic I mentioned was active) it has nothing to do with my point that chain and unchained can exist at the same time and not hurt each other (for some reason a point some people were making, chain literally doesn't have to touch unchained to function). Blue mage being ostracized doesn't mean unchained and chain can't work which is what you're responding to (ostracized blue mage would be stuck with PF - like it already is, so worst case scenario we have a blue mage but it can work in more areas lol), but again I already described why Blue Mage /wouldn't/ be so long as DF is programmed to check skills - which it should do for all jobs anyways (smart programming, as you said).

[Kazrah]

I did add you'd have to learn them before joining DF*, therefore players wouldn't be toxic to a blue mage because if you see a blue mage then you'd know they have those skills. So your issue about mean players won't be one . Also I believe that should be true for all jobs, not just blue mage (no joining end content without your important spells).

Which means that you'd have to build Blue Mage so that you either make the job far more punishing to players with bad RNG they're barred from group content for not being able to learn spell X or set it up so spells are learned automatically like how every other job works, meaning that there would be no "going out and learning" spells like we have with Blue Mage now. Again, you just can't have it both ways here.

I believe you can have both because I already said you'd program it in such a way due to smart programming.

Smart programming is designed around the premise that end users are either idiots (*coughXIfanboiscough*) and/or masters of exploitation with every possible intent on wrecking your stuff with as little effort as possible. It's because of this that we have the Blue Mage that we have now.

[Shougun]

Which means that you'd have to build Blue Mage so that you either make the job far more punishing to players with bad RNG theya're barred from group content for not being able to learn spell X or set it up so spells are learned automatically like how every other job works, meaning that there would be no "going out and learning" spells like we have with Blue Mage now. Again, you just can't have it both ways here.

Smart programming is designed around the premise that end users are either idiots (*coughXIfanboiscough*) and/or masters of exploitation with every possible intent on wrecking your stuff with as little effort as possible. It\'s because of this that we have the Blue Mage that we have now.

Please be creative with your problems listed though, you list an issue now make a solution. You're worried it's too punishing- is there not a way to tweak the percents?

You haven't given me an unsolvable problem, just said there are problems that need addressing and imo (lol) they are very addressable. You can have both, I'd actually arguing having both helps the chained idea a lot (giving it more sturdy ground to rest upon).

Also consider some punishment is the cost some people /want/ and is a reward balance for having a whole mechanic under your belt of limit and unlimit (obviously 1 percent drop rate on a required spell would be rage inducing lol). Like finding your own pet in wow for hunter or other special quests for jobs in that game, no it's not bad - it is a fun extra step (I want the step, you haven't unsold me).

To add another thing to think about in terms of cost is Blue Mage levels faster but has to spend more time gathering spells - balancing out what other jobs have and don't have to do. The average time spent could very likely be the same and balanced in a nature between a normal job and an advanced job.

Beyond that you could add a simple counter measure to failed learning, but I don't think you would given % around 40+. (Short concept is each time you fail to learn a spell you get an item that can be used to boost your learning %, all stacks of said item are consumed at once and return stack number + per failing and vanish on success. This system would work for /all/ blue mage issues such that a blue mage is never stuck in a true RNG lottery but again at 40%+ the problem shouldn't be that. Also could be chained exclusive if SE wants it to be impossible to do that to the unchained part).