My Idea For Fixing Blue Mage

[Bright-Flower]

Why?

Take a subset of the spells in the book and highlight them gold, these golden skills have "chained" versions of their skills. When you go into DF flip your job stone to chained mode (changing your gear and hotbar in one easy motion), chained blue can only use chained spells (which there are a specific set of).

Unchained blue = exactly how limited blue mage is now (cannot DF/etc). Chained blue = has to learn their skills, cannot join the DF content that could use them without having them first (and due to unchained mode can learn them without need of DF), is balanced like other jobs.

I don't see why they can't exist at the same time (besides money, although of course chain will take assets (animations, concepts, etc) from the unchained mode meaning it's less expensive than generating an entirely new job).

Just to be clear I don't agree with making 3 jobs part of the OP, I believe 1 is enough and 3 is too much work, just so some of my argument isn't mixed in too deep with that idea.

Then they have to build an actual rotation and balance it where the whole point of a limited job is to let you collect spells and do what you want with them away from the balanced endgame. Plus the issue of people having to go out and gather all of these chained abilities in order to be viable, a hurdle not thrust upon any other job. And if they separate the chained spells from the normal 'go out and collect them' spells at that point they might as well just make a new job separate from blu for all the work they gotta put into it.

[Shougun]

Then they have to build an actual rotation and balance it where the whole point of a limited job is to let you collect spells and do what you want with them away from the balanced endgame. Plus the issue of people having to go out and gather all of these chained abilities in order to be viable, a hurdle not thrust upon any other job. And if they separate the chained spells from the normal 'go out and collect them' spells at that point they might as well just make a new job separate from blu for all the work they gotta put into it.

People wanted to play Blue Mage as a main job, so no setting another new job is not the point lol (also it would still be less work than making a whole new job, since as I said they'd have a head start on lore and graphics). And yes of course they have to build a rotation, the whole point of limited job is not ruined by allowing a chained section though. You still have exactly the limited part of the job available to you (literally, limited is untouched).

You haven't given me a reason why it can't have both just that chained and unchained are different.. which of course they are - that is the point there.

Chained would not ruin unchained. You can still go learn unbalanced spells part of limited, you just can't use those unbalanced spells when "chained". If you chose not to main blue mage then you'll never experience being chained. And if you do then you can play blue mage as some weird solo lord when unchained (and content allows) and you can also play it as your main playing current now content. "but other jobs don't have to learn their skills, that's extra burden on blue mage players", I accept the burden thanks besides the reward is goofy spells when unchained (call it advanced job and let players know upfront it's different).

[Kazrah]

You haven't given me a reason why it can't have both just that chained and unchained are different.. which of course they are - that is the point there.

Because chained means they'd have to go learn those abilities and would likely be exiled by other players from group content until the player spent the work to go learn those spells. Not only is it roughly the response Yoshi had in regard to why Blue Mage is barred from Duty Finder content, but planning for the worst behavior of users is just a basic element of smart programming.

Ultimately, you can either have a job work like any other or you can have a job work like Blue Mage will. You can't have both because of just how horrible players can potentially be with any new system.

[Blueyes]

BLU could have worked as a normal job. They could have picked a role, and taken classic blue mage spells to form a rotation/toolkit for that role, and just tied the monster part of it into job quests. It would have worked fine.

The thing is, SE has pretty much done those things already. They have picked a role for Blue Mage (it's a DPS), it will have a rotation (one similar to Bard, but it's a rotation none the less), and there will be quests that may or may not guide players towards learning certain spells.

It's true that Blue Mage would have to put in extra work compared to other jobs, but shouldn't it be up to the players to decide if they want to put in the work towards using Blue Mage in all content? I don't see why it's such a bad thing to have a job with a different progression system. If you don't want to put up with a Blue Mage who only has Water Cannon, you don't have to, just like you don't have to put up with a Black Mage who only casts ice spells.

SE is being overly protective of Blue Mage. It's like a parent refusing to let their kid go to the park out of fear that their kid will get beaten up.

[Nihility]

Blue Mage is incredibly OP
the only way to "fix" it to be a standard class would be to remake it entirely from scratch again and basically make them not a blue mage

[DamianFatale]

Is the experimental Blue Mage not an evolution in a different way?

But I guess it isn't evolving the way you're demanding it to, pity that.

I don't like your attitude. Please stop derailing my thread.

[Bacent]

I don't like your attitude. Please stop derailing my thread.

It's not derailing when I'm replying to your comment and using your comment as an example. You're being VERY one sided about this, and anyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong. If you're gonna post on the discussion forums, be prepared to discuss, even about something you might not agree with.

[DamianFatale]

Blue Mage is incredibly OP
the only way to "fix" it to be a standard class would be to remake it entirely from scratch again and basically make them not a blue mage

Surely that isn't the only way. There are many solutions for every problem. Not just one.

[DamianFatale]

The thing is, SE has pretty much done those things already. They have picked a role for Blue Mage (it's a DPS), it will have a rotation (one similar to Bard, but it's a rotation none the less), and there will be quests that may or may not guide players towards learning certain spells.

It's true that Blue Mage would have to put in extra work compared to other jobs, but shouldn't it be up to the players to decide if they want to put in the work towards using Blue Mage in all content? I don't see why it's such a bad thing to have a job with a different progression system. If you don't want to put up with a Blue Mage who only has Water Cannon, you don't have to, just like you don't have to put up with a Black Mage who only casts ice spells.

SE is being overly protective of Blue Mage. It's like a parent refusing to let their kid go to the park out of fear that their kid will get beaten up.

Ignore the people making rude comments here. They are just circle jerking fanboys who can't handle people criticising their perfect game.

A sizable chunk of the fandom dislikes the idea of a limited job. It is what it is. A lengthy debate about it until SE decides to do something is inevitable.

[Shougun]

Ignore the people making rude comments here. They are just circle jerking fanboys who can't handle people criticising their perfect game.

A sizable chunk of the fandom dislikes the idea of a limited job. It is what it is. A lengthy debate about it until SE decides to do something is inevitable.

Ayyyyy lol, while I think there is certainly a lack of creativity when it comes to people arguing against the idea of unchain/unlimited* blue mage I don't think you're going to get a lot of opinion changing friends/support with that first sentence XD.

Just a context for people who are wondering for some of the support for blue mage having some element of "unchained/unlimited":




It's a fairly decent number being a forum number (forum / reddit being a small sample of the community). That second poll really needs a third question imo, if you want both - I'd prefer not to pick one of those two and I've seen this forum be for a third option of both too (poll from reddit).

* I have seen legitimate (imo) concerns and feedback against it though like "doesn't seem like Yoshi wants that" which seems to be true for now lol (he's changed mind before, like on Summoner bahamut). Some rebuttals are to some of the more bad ideas of fixes, too so I don't want to say all responses are bad. But I wish some would care more to entertain creative solutions rather just say "no impossible", that stuff reminds me a lot of the responses I got when asking for Summoner to get something a bit flashier/neat summon (which we got in the form of Ahk Morn and Demi-Bahamut both of which I think were fantastic and proof of "yes they can").

Not going to police speech but uh.. I wish we could all see more eye to eye here, truely unchain and chained will have very little to no effect on each other - they can exist in the same space.. For those who don't care for unchained.. they don't need to be against it except if they want to play SE's accountant. All of the issues Yoshi has listed against blue mage could be solved with some creativity* and assuming the spaghetti code hasn't introduced an impossibility lol (at the cost of adding some code to duty finder checker and telling players Blue Mage has to learn spells, which I think players WANT even for duty finder, I certainly want to learn blue mage spells even for the duty finder content - that's the charm man lol). *Originally he wanted Blue Mages to learn a lot of spells which is what we're getting, with the "solution" of both chain/unchained (limited/unlimited) we get everything he wanted and what players who wanted to main the job in the first place want.