BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[BillyKaplan]

I said it before, I'll say it again, you want a game that's not FFXIV. And with how you talk about BLU, given the recent patch notes, Choco, I'm not sure you want this BLU either.

[ChocoFeru]

The problem with this argument is that it's not fresh. The overworld is typically dead because it's boring, adding forced leveling and mob farming isn't going to suddenly change that.

Of course it's boring, and that's why we need jobs like BLU or BST so they can change the overworld in the future.

Why would they have to get rid of death? In pyros most things are already death resistant to the point it doesn't really work.

Well, it's you who want BLU to fit into duty-raid content. We know Death spell has no room in that kind of content.

Then, it's supposed to be a solo job but most of the solo content is locked out.

For now. Because the actual content is made to fit the duty-only mentality.

The only thing it can really do is farm overworld mobs, again that just sounds like loads of fun *sarcasm for those that can't tell* and then a weekly minigame. Hmmmmm but don't we already have lots of minigames that everyone loves? No, minigames last for about one week and then die. Notice die rhymes with diadem. When was the last time you went to play Lords of Verminion or did the win trading rigged triple triad tournaments? It's not just about raiding either. I don't raid, I still don't want a limited job blue mage that equates to a minigame.

And that's why overworld needs to change to fit new jobs like BLU. I'm glad that you're aware how boring overworld is and that it needs to be changed.

You can only have 24 skills on your hotbar at one time anyway and most likely new skills will outdate old skills anyway.

Or maybe not. Still, you have the freedom to do your own build to fit whatever you're going to do instead of a generic set of skills.

You don't have to get rid of it at all. Make the bosses immune to it like most are to Stun or Silence, or Sleep. Or make it do a large amount of damage to the boss.

So in the end it will be the same as a generic job.

Umm... DRG has that party wide Crit buff... MNK has Brotherhood. There is no reason Mighty Guard couldn't be a party wide defence up for a few seconds during a huge attack or something.

They're just mini-buffs. You can't compare a 5% mitigation buff with a, let's say, 60% mitigation one that lasts longer. We're talking about a BLU healing or even tanking, and not doing minor placebo-like buffs.

RDM says HI.

RDM can't heal properly in raid, just like PLD can't heal like a healer. We already got RDM reduced into a generic caster, we don't want BLU to be reduced into that as well.

I give you this one. But if you want to tank why not just play a tank?

Because versatility can be fun.

At least you would be able to play it in all content and not be restricted to party finder.

Yes, it's quite limited into the actual content. That's why we need to change the overworld to fit newer and different content. For dutyfinder we got lots of other jobs.

Nothing about BLU is new. It's still a collect-a-thon.

That's because you only see BLU that way, instead of what it can provide.

I guess when they add Puppet Master you'll throw all your minions at a mob and then they can tweak Lords of Verminion to be PUP's unique content...

I guess if they add PUP you'll want him to play like a MNK with a SMN pet with a similar generic rotation. Because pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 for hours is funnier than having a real PUP where you can modify the puppet parts at your will. I guess FFXIV has no room for other contents, so let's change the name to FFXIV: a Duty Reborn.

(oops the quotes, but I want to reply to everything :P)

I said it before, I'll say it again, you want a game that's not FFXIV. And with how you talk about BLU, given the recent patch notes, Choco, I'm not sure you want this BLU either.

You're right, I don't want this BLU. I want it to be playable in the overworld, but not in the actual one, but in a harder/meaningful one, so I approve the first steps to a new content.

I understand people wants a new caster to raid with, but we should be open-minded here and try to find new ways to play this game. I love to raid as well and I never stopped to, but I don't want this game to get stagnant like the rest of MMORPG.

[Allistar]

Most people who like the limited job version of Blue Mage are still open to changes. It's just that most people on the other side are asking for the one and only thing we don't want changed. We don't want it shoehorned into the current role-based trilogy, because that's what would ruin its identity as a blue mage. You might get plenty of support for opening it up to everything that doesn't require that fixed trilogy of roles, though. For instance, I don't see much reason for why it should be excluded from the MSQ, or from squadron runs. Opening those up, I'd support. But stripping Blue Mage of everything that makes it a Blue Mage just so that it can raid like any other job I wouldn't.

Then maybe its time to get rid of the trilogy.

[Fyce]

Then maybe its time to get rid of the trilogy.

That's what FFXIV is built on. You're better off asking for FFXIV-2. Or XVI, or XVII, whatever.

[Awha]

Then maybe its time to get rid of the trilogy.

I think getting rid of the tank, heal, dps trinity would cause a much larger outcry, and say if the community did support such a rework it would be no small undertaking. Would require a complete rework of the entire game combat system and encounter design.

[Allistar]

They are very different games though. Look at red mage in XI versus XIV where it's a pure damage dealer with a bit of utility via vercure/verraise and a group damage buff compared to what it was in XI for example.

They could have made BLU a traditional job in FF XIV. They could have confined it to one role, with a set of abilities like every other job, just tying the monster part into the lore and job quests, and had it function just fine. Or, they could go full on classic blue mage with hunting down skills etc but limit it like they did. Maybe they should have done the former, but trying to do both I think would have lead to issues because of FF XIV's structure. They would have to balance blue mage around having all of its best spells, which means that blue players would be required to go and get those spells, and use those same best spells, to be competitive. A burden no other job in the game has to deal with. You would also have the issue of blue mages in duty finder without an adequate selection of spells holding groups back and potentially getting kicked for it. I don't think a middle of the road approach here is going to work. Either they sacrifice end game viability and go full ham with the skill hunting nature of the job, or they sacrifice that to mold it into a single role job like every other job in the game with a defined skill set they can balance.

FF XI and XIV really are very different games despite both being MMOs. XI's blue mage would not work in XIV. Something had to give. Maybe SE chose the wrong path and should have made it a normal job, but that would have come at a cost on the other end to make it fit.

BLU in XI was far from a traditional job, it did not fit into one role over another assigning your spells would change how you played the job.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Blue_Mage

[Allistar]

I think getting rid of the tank, heal, dps trinity would cause a much larger outcry, and say if the community did support such a rework it would be no small undertaking. Would require a complete rework of the entire game combat system and encounter design.

I meant as far as Tank Healer DPS...add another role, like support. Jobs whose role would be to provide beneficial buffs or debuffs to party in addition to their dps.

[Liale]

Of course it's boring, and that's why we need jobs like BLU or BST so they can change the overworld in the future.




Well, it's you who want BLU to fit into duty-raid content. We know Death spell has no room in that kind of content.



For now. Because the actual content is made to fit the duty-only mentality.



And that's why overworld needs to change to fit new jobs like BLU. I'm glad that you're aware how boring overworld is and that it needs to be changed.

What you are asking for is a completely different game, they actually did make the overworld harder in stormbringer however, with gear creep that can literally only last so long. Even in games like eso where the overworld mobs scale with the character they are considered a nuisance more than anything else. A hard overwold in an mmo will never be a thing. A hard overworld basically means that casuals will be turned off which would mean a loss of revenue. Furthermore, blue is not changing the overworld or leading to a change of it. They rearranged where the mobs are but that is it. Also, blue is not going to lead to some grand revolution, blue mage as it is, is a mini game. It will never be the main game, it will not overtake the main game. So saying we need blue mage so they can overhaul the overworld is just foolish. It will not happen and thus it's not a valid argument. They will never replace the game as is with the game you dream of. Changing blue mage to be an actual job is within the scope of what could happen in the game. In order for your scenario to actually pan out they would have to change all the classes as they are to similar side mini games as blue mage.

[MrKimper]

I meant as far as Tank Healer DPS...add another role, like support. Jobs whose role would be to provide beneficial buffs or debuffs to party in addition to their dps.

I think Yoshi already explained why a pure support role wouldn't work/would be hard to add and I sort of agree. Either their utility is so busted they're required or it's so useless there's no point in taking them, at which point the only thing they'd be good for is, DPS, so you'd have to buff their damage to be equal to a DPS so they contribute SOMETHING right? at which point they might as well just be a DPS with utility.

Primary buffers COULD work I think, but again they'd have to completely shift how they make content around that and it would practically become a completely different game.

[Alleo]

How can Blue even help with changing the overworld? We know that they dont want these jobs in current content and since they can do certain content with premade groups this just means that they wont be in recent content at all. (Thus might always be one expansion behind it) So how exactly would they make the world more dangerous if it can only be in old content? Create harder monsters there? Well only bad for all those newer players that have to level there, otherwise not hard for max players or those that finished the last expansion. Also they would need to make them immune to certain blue skills too otherwise the challenge of them would be gone too.

Why would they even need blue as a limited job to change the overworld? I mean its not like they couldnt just do it anyway and still have blue as a normal job. I honestly dont understand this point.