Drk: worst designed class

[shao32]

An older fight? Are we going to talk about relevant situations or not? It doesn't make sense to use "soloing old content" as valid criteria for self healing when the only valuable context is for the sake of giving healers an easier time in relevant content.

mitigation is not HPS, TBN is not a self-healing skill bcs it's don't recover any HP in the process so it can't be classified as such in any form of argument.

[Hierro]

mitigation is not HPS, TBN is not a self-healing skill bcs it's don't recover any HP in the process so it can't be classified as such in any form of argument.

It's all eHP, so I don't know what to tell you exactly especially when fflogs classifies it as such.

[Lyth]

...

Self-sustain means exactly what it says on the tin. You cannot measure "self-sustain" if there is a healer present. If you're capable of soloing current content, then we can use that as a metric instead.

Also, don't let fflogs (or other people, for that matter) do your thinking for you.

[shao32]

It's all eHP, so I don't know what to tell you exactly especially when fflogs classifies it as such.

bcs is a shield and i guess its recognice the skill effect at the same way as a galvanize from sch and put the shield mitigation in that section, if you look at WAR logs shake it off is in the same section too.

[Hierro]

Self-sustain means exactly what it says on the tin. You cannot measure "self-sustain" if there is a healer present. If you're capable of soloing current content, then we can use that as a metric instead.

Also, don't let fflogs (or other people, for that matter) do your thinking for you.

Good thing we're talking about healing, not sustainability. Not even WAR can "self-sustain" entirely through today's raids.

[Lyth]

Good thing we're talking about healing, not sustainability. Not even WAR can "self-sustain" entirely through today's raids.

as an interesting aside, I looked up some of the top parses for tanks on A12S. Warriors seem to average around 500 HPS in terms of sustain, but I found a DRK who broke 6.1k DPS while healing 700 HPS through liberal usage of TBN.

Keep moving the bar, friend.

[Hierro]

Keep moving the bar, friend.

You're the one asking for soloing today's content.

[Chrono_Rising]

Been awhile Hierro, hope all is well.

I do think DRK can use little changes here and there, like some of the ideas Chrono's mentioned before. I know I liked this one idea of increasing passive blood gain via BW to 50 from some odd number like 46. But I don't think this class is badly designed, nowhere near close to it.

Wow that was an old post. For ease of reference: blood weapon on its own gains us about 36 blood, 2.4 dark arts, 7/10ths of a GCD, and 1/2 an auto attack per use. I've argued in the past that these values should be tuned up, in particular for those sub 1 expected values. Gaining 50 blood, 3 dark arts, 1 GCD, and 1 auto attack per use of blood weapon would be more satisfying. Delirium makes these values 1, which means every other blood weapon use can get you your extra GCD and auto. Thats 2 minutes to definitely see a return, unless there is any form of down time in which case you likely lose 90% benefit of the buff.

Also worth noting, the mana "gain" in blood weapon isn't a true gain. It is only a shifting of the mana you would have generated over 40 seconds in grit to be in a 15 second interval out of grit. Also comparing this with blood price where you expect to gain 25 blood, and suddenly blood weapon is only gaining you 11 blood, 7/10ths of a GCD, and 1/2 an auto. This ability should be revisited and potentially buffed. The 30 second recast I mentioned above would go a long way to making blood weapon more impactful, though we should still revisit the 7/10ths of a GCD and 1/2 an auto.

In an ideal world, I wish to see blood weapon and blood price just built into the stances they are a part of, and have our cooldowns buff their attributes further.

It's all eHP, so I don't know what to tell you exactly especially when fflogs classifies it as such.

The issue with the fflogs metric of self healing is that it counts shields as healing. There is good reason to do this for healers since scholar shields are a thing. But it makes less sense for tanks. It would be nice if the site would treat all mitigation the same way but until then it is easily skewed by tank shields. There are clear differences between how the game defines healing and how that site does. LD => sole survivor TBN does not mean the healer only needs to restore 60% more HP, they still need to restore 80% as only sole survivor counts towards the in-game self heal.

[Shurrikhan]

An older fight? Are we going to talk about relevant situations or not? It doesn't make sense to use "soloing old content" as valid criteria for self healing when the only valuable context is for the sake of giving healers an easier time in relevant content.

When the point you're replying to is that 'it's not sufficient in relevant content, despite what others may have you believe about TBN's strength', is it worth jumping down someone's throat to slap on the same parameters they're already implying as the reasonable limits of discussion?

In an ideal world, I wish to see blood weapon and blood price just built into the stances they are a part of, and have our cooldowns buff their attributes further.

<Spitball idea warning>

I've been thinking about this myself. Consider if Blood Weapon's MP generation is a default behavior. It creates MP at a flat amount + per-potency amount. The Blood Weapon skill itself increasingly drains MP to proportionately build Attack Speed or whatnot.

Imagine there as being Shadow, Blood, and then Black Blood (the combination of each) as resources. The first two are simply a graphic overlaid atop the HP and MP bars, showing what portion of your HP or MP can be "tapped" -- used for something more. The third is an optional bar onto which these can be duplicated, along with always showing the shared amount. Generating self-healing taps HP, with overhealing still tapping. Spending MP creates 'tapped' MP - Shadow. Both "taps" gradually fade with time, at a combination flat and percentage rate. To make the largest Blood shield you can, then, you should generate a ton of healing. To maximally augment or sustain defensive Shadow abilities (Shadowskin, Shadow Wall (now utility), Dark Dance, Dark Mind), you should rapidly spend just before having to augment/sustain. As a rule of thumb, Blood provides fixed absorption, Shadow provides chance/percentile mitigation.

Darkside allows you to consume untapped resource, albeit at lesser efficiency. For MP, this means higher potential burst at cost to sustain. For HP, this means being able to put up a blood shield at cost of current HP (where it would normally be free if from "tapped HP" alone, just consuming the tap) in time to be healed up before a big hit.

Let's say we return Shadowskin and Dark Dance in some form and throw on two Blood spenders to balance that out: Red Thirst™ (Bloodbath with a fixed bonus; great for pairing with AD or Unleash) and Grim Ward (slices upward/forward, leaving a trail of [energized, slightly gelatinous-looking] blood that forms a shield before the DRK).

So, Blood Weapon consumes MP for Attack Speed, tapping MP.
Blood Price causes HP consumed/lost to generate MP, tapping HP.
Delirium enhances certain Blood/Shadow effects for its duration.
Then your (buffed) Quietus, The Blackest Night, and Bloodspiller consume both.
(Or, have Bloodspiller spend Blood to deal massive damage and debuff the enemy to provide a flat self-heal bonus to each of your strikes, have a revised TBN spend Shadow, have Quietus spend both, and use a different second Black Blood skill -- whatever, really.)

So, you build MP and HP for bonus damage/effectiveness and survival, tap MP and HP for further bonus effectiveness/abilities, and can combine them through Black Blood for yet more.

[Chrono_Rising]

Snip

Can you describe the tapping mechanics in more detail?