DPS mentality in MMOs

[Bourne_Endeavor]

When your entire argument -- that further rDPS jobs are impossible to design -- depends on people using pDPS measurements and personal comparisons obsessively enough to exclude all jobs not of highest possible %rDPS yet use pDPS measurement exclusively, it is not strawman to note that -- by your logic -- information such as that provided by xivrdps.com, or any other measurement of actual (tDPS) contribution, is irrelevant. If one's actual contribution beyond pDPS is irrelevant to player decision-making, then so must be information that notes anything more than pDPS. Unless all you've given thus far was an unrelated rant, rather than your warrant, addressing said warrant is not a strawman.

I never said rDPS jobs are impossible otherwise Bard wouldn't exist. I said that is roughly where the line will be drawn in terms of support in this game because people heavily focus on both their own pDPS and rDPS. You keep trying to insist pDPS will abruptly become irrelevant, which is you making an assumption the entire playerbase will abandon pDPS. Could it happen? Maybe. But that is a massive shift—one SE isn't going to bank on because in the event it doesn't happen. They'll have released a job with a lot of backlash one way or another. The shift in mindset will have to occur first, if it ever does.

Then I guess you're just... acutely mistaken? Do you have any understanding of tDPS calculation? It doesn't use a separate kind of parsing. It uses the exact same ACT data we already gather now, which is why it can be gleaned directly from any fflogs post. ACT would not have to be newly adjusted for fflogs to provide more intuitive or relevant data.

And what site do people focus on more? FFlogs. You can prattle on how much better xivrdps is, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but the fact remains people still focus on FFlogs and their personal numbers. At best, xivrdps is a companion site used on the side. Therefore, for FFlogs to account for rDPS both it and ACT will need to show that information in a separate category when neither do. Now to be fair, I think they should but it won't happen with the exclusion of pDPS.

You realize there are 2 RDM top-20 speedkills on Chaos alone, right? Did you perhaps check... 5 out of every 20? 10 if unlucky?

So... 2/25 is your definition of RDM getting into the speed kill meta? You're grasping at some serious straws...

And I can't at all imagine why SAM is seeing less use than its usual direct competitor, BLM, on those three melee-disruptive fights... Take the one fight that actually gives casters a bit of trouble though, and SAM is each of the top 3 speedkills.

M/F is the only fight where SAM comes anywhere close to speed killing. But why is that? Because Trick Attack can only benefit four people for most of the fight. Basically, when a fight gimped NIN, Samurai finally got in. And what fight exactly gave casters trouble this tier? BLM and SMN are in speed kills for every single one of them. Furthermore, in what universe is Chaos melee-disruptive? Not to mention, DRG and NIN are no less hindered yet never seem to fall out of the melee meta.

It previously had exactly two forms, DRG NIN MCH BRD or DRG NIN SMN BRD. (That shit was true for much of Heavensward as well until BLM finally started outscaling SMN in low-motion fights.) Now we also see BLM and MNK as frequently included members. Not one job is utterly absent from a top place speedrun parse if you're not cherrypicking. (I'll take the continuous uptime turret fight and the one that disporportionately affects melee and -oh- would you look at that, no SAMs and the super mobile ranged meta comp is still in full swing!) That is an improvement, both over SB thus far and most of Heavensward.

Once again, this is false. MNK is only included in triple melee comps with one exception, I believe. That is not "frequently" by any stretch. In fact, MNK only tops MCH in overall uploads. Yes, the supposedly "frequent" MNK has seen almost as low usage as the least popular job in the game. Sweetheart, you're the one cherrypicking here. When DRG and NIN dominate by almost a 90% margin, you can't go and point to the one fight where SAM comes out ahead in only three parses and say, "See! SAM is in the speed kill meta too!!!!"

SAM: 3/25
MNK 0/25
DRG: 24/25
NIN: 21/25

Definitely looks like SAM is getting popular for speed kills...

No, I'm not demanding it. But it is the objectively better measurement. You yourself have said as much in other threads in discussing why meta compositions exist. We take a job for the combination of its own damage and what it gives to others, not its own damage and how much more damage it can get from others.

No. You're just mis-characterizing my argument to suit your narrative.

One more time. If a support job contributes the exact same rDPS and pDPS as a SMN, why wouldn't this job be prioritized? That has been my argument. I never once said people would exclude just to pad their numbers. At least not on a wide scale. In fact, I explicitly said only if it doesn't negatively impact the group's overall rDPS—and even used a numerical equation to represent it yet you keep trying insisting I'm arguing something else. With that in mind, if hypothetical Dancer did 5,000 pDPS and 2,500 rDPS through buffs, making it similar in overall contribution to SMN. It will be unfairly prioritized so long as pDPS remains a focal point. You can split those numbers in whatever manner you fancy; higher/lower, it doesn't matter. So long as it contributes the same.

As for MNK and BLM. You can count the number of fights on a single hand where MNK replaces either DRG or NIN regardless of which fight you pick. It's currently the second least popular jobs in terms of Savage uploads. The third? BLM, which admittedly, is cutting closer to SMN. Of the jobs you've mentioned, BLM is the only one even scratching its way in. Hence why I didn't include it earlier. And to be fair, it has less competition as MCH is a complete mess right now and SMN's buffs aren't amazing.