Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272

[Hamada]

Considering I wasn't item level to do it with a pug, kind of a moot point. Either way I'd consider it proven that an undergeared tank who knows how to play can handle it quite easily. But you're taking my comment out of context. OP asked if it was wrong to go into Castrum Abania in 272. There is not a required item level so it seems to me that SE is OK with you entering Castrum Abania in whatever gear you're in when you unlock it, and provided an example where I was very undergeared myself but still able to complete content. Now if you want to claim "only in that party" - OK, fair enough, but it can't really be proven one way or the other.

I would bet SE would not expect people to act in this manner. I am on the side of cultural differences here. It is clearly an oversight when you can enter with high ilevel right side, low left, meet the ilevel requrement, then get oneshoted left and right because you lack hp. Sorry there is nothing out of context here. If you are going to pull out "can't really be proven one way or the other." then I can do the same thing to you. You can't prove " it seems to me that SE is OK with you entering Castrum Abania in whatever gear you're in when you unlock it," I do not care if you think SE is ok with people coming to a dungeon in gear they have little to no hope of helping the group progress. You assume wrong, it is an oversight due to cultural differences, do not assume.

Oh hey, this thread's still around..

So you skipped my last post because you ignore posts that defeat your position? that is nice. I am glad you are siding it is wrong to enter 272 in this place as a tank now. I already commented and explained why this post was wrong in the past, why are you doing it again? Do not post if you have nothing new to add to the conversation. All you are doing is restating your biased anecdotes because you do not want to admit being wrong undergearing in dungeons. Gearing EX trial in 380 is not the same as Abania at i270. Abania at i270 is gimp, Gearing EX trial in 380 is over gear, please learn the difference and stop misinforming people.

Like nestama said, we are not denying it can't be done. What we are against is gearing like that in pugs, esp as tank, Just because you know how to play and you know how to pass this place in i270 does not mean others can. This is a team effort, not your self.

"Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272"
Yes it is wrong, esp in a pug, that simple.

It is amazing to see people asking to "prepare" for a lvl 69 duty you will do just one or two times before reach 70 and forget its existence then.And I consider this "preparation" the real waste of time and (maybe?) loss of fun. If I want to "prepare" for something, I'll do that for lvl 70 content I want challenge. Maybe savages and latest ex primals. But not a lvl 69 leveling duty.

Really, some people treat everything as savage content... that's fine, if you like do that, but don't force everyone to your standards. Shire gear up to 70 is perfectly fine for any casual player.

No it is not, also simply saying "shire gear" implies the 260 variant, that would most likely lead to a kick from them being a burden to the group. We really need entry requirements for everything, this thread is proof of it. My guess is SE felt it was not needed and thought the player base could handle themselves, maybe for the Japanese player base, but clearly the NA/EU player base is a different matter.

[Deceptus]

When the Burn released, the average player had to go into it in with, at best, their i360-370 gear - and be able to beat it with that level gear. And those first few days fighting the Mist Dragon were a lot tougher than now as we've geared up, but it was doable, and all of us were in the same "undergeared" boat together..

I remember both healing and tanking the Burn when it came out and Mist Dragon hit like a TRUCK at 360 ilvls. You absolutely had to Def CD some of his stuff as a tank and be quick on your Esuna's and heals or people would surely die.

Leveling to 70 with Shire gear isn't "being lazy": you hit 60, you will get the best gear you can buy at 60, and continue leveling until the game drops you better gear that you, of course, will use. Never said to ignore it. But if I'm unlucky with rolls I'll not going to spam the same duty for a piece of gear. You call it "being lazy"? OK.
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Poor rolling isn't an excuse when the game gives you free HQ equipment for the quests you have to do leading up to dungeons as well as a free piece of gear just for completing said dungeons.

[Fynlar]

So you skipped my last post because you ignore posts that defeat your position? that is nice. I am glad you are siding it is wrong to enter 272 in this place as a tank now.

The thread is long, I'm going to miss stuff, and I'm certainly not going to go digging for your post.

Based on you trying to put words in my mouth though, I'm going to assume I'm not missing out on much.

My stance hasn't changed, by the way. It probably isn't going to either, if you were holding your breath.

I already commented and explained why this post was wrong in the past, why are you doing it again? Do not post if you have nothing new to add to the conversation.

A lot of people here could do with the same advice.

Gearing EX trial in 380 is over gear, please learn the difference and stop misinforming people.

There isn't any difference. Please stop pretending like there is.

Both leveling and EX dungeons are easy, so the only reason people would be sticklers about gear is because they want their runs to go as fast as possible. This fact doesn't magically change just because it's a leveling dungeon or a EX dungeon.

"Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272"
Yes it is wrong, esp in a pug, that simple.

Except it's still quite doable at that level, so it isn't that simple, unless you just think no content should be done without the best gear possible.

also simply saying "shire gear" implies the 260 variant,

No, it implies 270. It isn't difficult at all to augment the gear anymore (it costs less than the actual gear does), and nobody wants to say "augmented shire gear" every single time. You can safely assume anyone in this thread that was mentioning shire gear, myself included, was specifically talking about the highest ilvl gear coming out of HW, which would be the i270 stuff.

I remember both healing and tanking the Burn when it came out and Mist Dragon hit like a TRUCK at 360 ilvls.

What usually got people on Mist Dragon was not realizing how the divebombs worked (borrowing from Neverreap 1st boss mechanic), especially when it was your healer among the people that didn't know. The vast majority of my wipes were from that specific phase of the fight.

What improved things here was better mechanic knowledge more so than the gear. I still see some people in 390+ stuff that don't seem to know what to do with the divebombs, and they still get wrecked.

[Ilan]

No, it implies 270. It isn't difficult at all to augment the gear anymore (it costs less than the actual gear does), and nobody wants to say "augmented shire gear" every single time. You can safely assume anyone in this thread that was mentioning shire gear, myself included, was specifically talking about the highest ilvl gear coming out of HW, which would be the i270 stuff.

And you really believe that people would make the effort or have the knowledge to upgrade their shire gear if they are to lazy to upgrade their normal leveling gear to a propper ilvl? They would still have to run 2 level 60 24 man raids for that and they would need to know that they can upgrade the gear, try again.

[Iscah]

And you really believe that people would make the effort or have the knowledge to upgrade their shire gear if they are to lazy to upgrade their normal leveling gear to a propper ilvl? They would still have to run 2 level 60 24 man raids for that and they would need to know that they can upgrade the gear, try again.

You can buy the upgrade items with poetics directly from the other vendor in the same shop. As long as people understand how the convoluted upgrade system works, upgrading is zero effort.

I disagree with the argument that you don't need to bother with upgrading your gear, but I do agree that when people talk about Ironworks/Shire gear, I would assume they are talking about the augmented versions..

[Kuroka]

But even that, i had many ppl who never even bothered to asked where to get the upgrades, its the same as those who dont get how to get a tome weapon...

[Ilan]

You can buy the upgrade items with poetics directly from the other vendor in the same shop. As long as people understand how the convoluted upgrade system works, upgrading is zero effort.

I disagree with the argument that you don't need to bother with upgrading your gear, but I do agree that when people talk about Ironworks/Shire gear, I would assume they are talking about the augmented versions..

Well then they changed that. But that still doesn't mean that people will do it because they need more poetics for that and they need to know about it. So its as much effort as getting new gear, which will be thrown at you anyway.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kuroka]

Some are just greedy too and sell that HQ crafted gear on the Mb instead of you know, use it. Honesty, gear from quests like MSQ should be bond to you...

[whiskeybravo]

I would bet SE would not expect people to act in this manner. I am on the side of cultural differences here. It is clearly an oversight when you can enter with high ilevel right side, low left, meet the ilevel requrement, then get oneshoted left and right because you lack hp. Sorry there is nothing out of context here. If you are going to pull out "can't really be proven one way or the other." then I can do the same thing to you. You can't prove " it seems to me that SE is OK with you entering Castrum Abania in whatever gear you're in when you unlock it," I do not care if you think SE is ok with people coming to a dungeon in gear they have little to no hope of helping the group progress. You assume wrong, it is an oversight due to cultural differences, do not assume.

There are numerous examples of SE not expecting their players to do a lot of things their players have done. Not sure how culture has anything to do with it, for example, I'm sure players on both sides of the pond used lv60 STR accessories on tanks at SB launch due to SE's oversight. Common sense isn't culturally restricted..

Again taking a comment out of context, what I said about "can't be proven" was in relation to joining random DF group to test my undergeared WAR alt. It is an actual limitation since it didn't meet requirements to join. I can't prove it. But we can certainly prove by deductive reasoning that SE is OK with entering Castrum Abania in whatever gear your wearing when you unlock it since there is no other explicit limitation or requirement set forth. The whole concept of being on a "team" is predicated on the idea that we are stronger by working together. Sure, every player would like to be on a "super team" with all the best players around them but that's just not how team games work, it's not how the world works. It's a responsibility of the more capable players to carry a larger burden and bring the team to victory.

[kamenkuro]

This is an RPG. Specifically an MMORPG where stats matter. Skill is only so helpful. This ain't Monster Hunter, you can't run into a fight naked with a sharpened stick and out maneuver an aoe. As a tank, damage is unavoidable. You need to make sure at least your entire left side is up to date so you can eat the hits and your entire right side and weapon are there so that you can hit hard enough to generate hate. There's a reason why as you progress through the story you find vendors with gear that you could use. Buy it, use it.