Gating interesting content behind artificial side leveling

[Stanelis]

You're a few months late to the party in all honesty. Why are you suddenly interested in Eureka now that 'dungeon' has been slapped onto it? I enjoy the story for Eureka but even I can admit that it's implementation has been a right mess from the get go. It having a public dungeon doesn't suddenly make it 'interesting'

I did anemos, it was terrible. Pagos was worst, I didn't find the motivation to keep grinding there.

The hydros public dungeon wasn't announced back then, if SE had told me that they ll implement this sort of stuff, maybe I'd have stuck to it. I can't find the motivation to grind for a shiny weapon but I can find some to unlock decent content.

Essentially what you're saying is that you want the content to be more easily accessible for people who didn't spend time leveling in eureka for one reason or another. Whereas Yoshida has stated on multiple occasions that Eureka was designed to be content for old school MMO players who enjoy long grinds and grueling endgame content. In this very interview he says the public dungeon is not "casual" content, and casual players should avoid it.

No I just want something that makes sense, the current elemental level system doesn't (the magia board or pyros abilities system are good ideas but the elemental level side of things really isn't working when there is such a spread in level in singles areas). But I won't delve into the details as it is a topic beaten to death. The issue isn't that there is grind or whatever but that the current eureka grind makes no sense. Furthermore, I see it as a problem that what you farm outside eureka don't really translate into eureka with the ilvl sync : if there was a reason to go fish in omega savage for gear to be used in interesting eureka content (like that public dungeon, as it really sounds interesting), maybe some people would find the motivation to go there and farm for gear.

So to answer your question, why is there an alternate leveling system ? Because it was designed that way to be a long grind on purpose. The public dungeon is content for the type of people who enjoy these kinds of grinds. If you don't like it, it just means you're not one of the people this content was intended for and you don't have to do it.

I don't think you really understand my point, the issue here isn't the grind (that isn't even long, just boring, tedious and ridiculous in its implementation, I don't know about hydros but pagos is like 90 % waiting, 5 % killing glorified trashs mobs you already fought and 5 % fighting fate NMs that range from not really interesting to mildly entertaining). Also, there are no correlation between liking public dungeons and alternative leveling system or grinds.

Also as someone who understand the joke of finding 2 minautors in a cavern after a slide in a snowy area I m pretty sure I m the people targeted with eureka (it's a direct reference to a BCNM in uleguerand range in FFXI).

[Haxaan]

I did anemos, it was terrible. Pagos was worst, I didn't find the motivation to keep grinding there.

The hydros public dungeon wasn't announced back then, if SE had told me that they ll implement this sort of stuff, maybe I'd have stuck to it.



No I just want something that makes sense, the current elemental level system doesn't. But I won't delve into the details as it is a topic beaten to death. The issue isn't that there is grind or whatever but that the current eureka grind makes no sense.

So basically... if you had known there would be a reward for finishing Eureka you would have stuck it out? Well now you know there is one, no one is stopping you from going back into Eureka. It isn't going anywhere.

[Mholito]

The public dungeon was mentioned as early as when we first learned about the Logos system. In fact, nearly every time the Logos system has been brought up in interviews and liveletters, it's been mentioned that you should familliarize yourself with it because it will be very important for the upcomming "Public Dungeon" in the fourth Eureka zone. This was before we even knew the name of Pyros.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

It's already been quoted here, people:

So the people doing the content have something to do from 4.5x to 5.0.

Yoshida: Hai. The public dungeon i spoke about isn't really a part of Hydatos if you ask me. Hydatos concludes just like Pyros and Anemos. The "public dungeon" is for those who have done everything else in Eureka and have nothing else to do. The weapon upgrades and the story can be done without touching the public dungeon, so please don't worry. You can casually enjoy Hydatos like the other Eureka areas.

Correct me if I'm wrong: It's public dungeon in sense like Eureka, but it's not behind it.

What would be the business logic of making an MMO inside an MMO inside an MMO ... ?? If SE is as naive as that, simply wait till they put Eureka Jump Potions in mogstation then the cycle is complete.. How many reborns can an mmo take..

[Stanelis]

So basically... if you had known there would be a reward for finishing Eureka you would have stuck it out? Well now you know there is one, no one is stopping you from going back into Eureka. It isn't going anywhere.

Yes if I knew there was a point in partaking in terribly poorly implemented content I'd have stuck to it, but that's totally beside the point discussed here. It should be in everybody's best interest to discuss game design elements of the game to improve the game. Because right now, nobody can honestly tell me eureka is well designed.

The public dungeon was mentioned as early as when we first learned about the Logos system. In fact, nearly every time the Logos system has been brought up in interviews and liveletters, it's been mentioned that you should familliarize yourself with it because it will be very important for the upcomming "Public Dungeon" in the fourth Eureka zone. This was before we even knew the name of Pyros.

I don't think that s what was said. It was said that the complexity of the systems implemented would rise with each eureka areas.

What would be the business logic of making an MMO inside an MMO inside an MMO ... ??

Now that's really the question we need to ask right now because if the topic isn't raised we ll end up with like 20 different leveling systems in a few years in FFXIV.

[MariaArvana]

I don't think that s what was said. It was said that the complexity of the systems implemented would rise with each eureka areas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tion_on_pyros/

"第4弾ではパブリックダンジョン的なものもある
In the 4th installment there'll be something akin to a public dungeon"

This was from an interview nearly 3 months ago; the idea of a public dungeon has been around since well before Pyros launched, iirc. Arguments can be made as to how set in stone it was, but the idea and developer interest was surely there to give hints at expecting such an idea.

[InkstainedGwyn]

It's already been quoted here, people:

Correct me if I'm wrong: It's public dungeon in sense like Eureka, but it's not behind it.

What would be the business logic of making an MMO inside an MMO inside an MMO ... ?? If SE is as naive as that, simply wait till they put Eureka Jump Potions in mogstation then the cycle is complete.. How many reborns can an mmo take..

No, it sounds like "the public dungeon isn't involved in finishing the Eureka storyline, it's for people to still have a reason to go into Eureka to do things" (i.e. keep it from dying so fast that people can't get their weapons two months later). Nothing about that says "it's not in Eureka" to me.

[Dyvid]

Hello,

I'm making this topic as per to discuss the last interview posted on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

In this interview, we learn that a specific dungeon will be accessible inside hydros with special conditions. My guess is that it is content tied to the ozma like mobs and absolute virtue shown in the latest trailer.

It sounds like interesting content and I'm not arguing against this. However, I'd like to ask, why content like this has to be gated behind the "side game" elemental leveling from both anemos, pagos and pyros when we already have regular levels and the item level system ?

Because that is what the content is designed to be?

[Rosentretter]

...wut?

He's just trying to get some attention. Either that, or troll, or drunk, or everything together. Check the Mogstation thread and you'll see.

[BillyKaplan]

shouldn't get anything interesting at the end of their grind

You basically admitted Eureka is boring. So I don't see why people should run it as much as they do because it encourages the devs to make more boring, uninspired content.

You could use your logic for the other side as well. If you're not the crowd that runs Eureka, then you have no business doing the Dungeon that is tied to it in the first place.

Reread my post because I said the exact opposite. Savage and Ultimate are both on the same "casual" axis - the content difficulty one. Yoshi himself said that people who completed Eureka don't have to run that Dungeon because it's "too stressful". It's content not intended for that crowd in the first place. So locking it behind Eureka is obviously meant not for the people already running Eureka, but the people who don't, and want more engaging, interesting content. This is even more an obvious "please run Eureka" than locking the relic itself behind Eureka was - and that was pretty obvious.