getting kicked from end game pfs as soon as I join?

[Ilan]

It's still a game, treating it as a job is absurd. Sure you have to show up on time for raids. but having to bring a "Resume" and being judged before people even get to know you is a cancer.

You know whats also "cancer"? People who join parties for EX primals or savage and the rest of the people have to carry them or they can't even get it done because one or more people are just not able to play this content. But yeah its ok to waste the time of others as long as this player has his fun, right?

So what is worse? The people who let themselfs get carried through everything or the ones who quickly check your logs to see if you are capable of beating the content.

[Reap00]

You need a reality check kid. You are playing a video game.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

You need a reality check kid. You are playing a video game.

Nahh. Leave it the way it is. You don't have to have every item in the game easily available to you. This game needs more items that only a select few have access to.

Sounds like you take the game seriously when you need it, kid.

Also a tip: If you didn't care about people's opinions (like you claim to), you wouldn't be here attacking them. You just wouldn't reply.

[Melichoir]

So to the "Invasion of Privacy" thing:

Youre privacy is not being violated. You do not have a right to withhold your performance information because everything you do in the game isnt 'yours'. Its technically SEs. Think of it this way:

You walk up to the gate of a theme park. They ask you for your ID and personal info so they can create a specific club card for you when youre in the park. You choose to share that information with the the park management. That is a transaction only between you and the park and IS subject to privacy, as you are not entering into an agreement with any other party and choosing to share that specific information with others. Meaning, the park usually cant take your personal information you gave to them and give that exact information to the independent hot dog vendor whos right outside the park for money UNLESS you agreed to it at the start of the transaction. And they have to be fairly overt about that. Also remember that the Club Card is not YOURS. Its hte parks. They can publish some of that club card info publically if they so do choose. So if you chose an alias for yourself when youre in the park, and you chose a little sticker to represent you, the park could make that data available if they so do choose. Again, You are paying to have access to the ability to have an alias and sticker while in the park.

Once you have your ID, youre free to enter the park and do everything the park has to offer. Now, once you are in the park there are caveats. First and foremost, the park has cameras everywhere. There is no privacy. There is nothing you can do in the park without it being recorded. You dont have the right to tell the park that your activities within the park shouldnt be monitored, as it is the Park's Property and you have no legal rights to that property. You are just paying to have access to that park. Furthermore, anything you do in the park can be witnessed and recorded by anyone else who is also in the park. Again, you do not have privacy within the park. You waived that right when entering it. So if you go on the roller coaster, other people can witness and record you going on that roller coaster. You dont get to tell other people or the park that they cant record you doing it. If someone wanted to, they could technically follow you all day through the park and you usually wouldnt have any real means of stopping them short of reporting them to the park officials.

Now here are the grey areas:

Depending on where you come from, it is sometimes legal for that park to sell statistics of what park goers averagely do to outside vendors. For example, if the park notices a lot of players buy hotdogs with cream soda, they can sell that information to the HotDog vendor outside the park, who may then make sales pitches to patrons outside the park for special deals on Hotdogs with Cream Soda. They cannot sell individual information that was specifically shared with the park, but they can do it if its broad group statistics where the individual is indiscernible. Furthermore, the type of recordings that happen within the park that is allowed also varies. The park may allow its patrons to go pro or live stream what happens in the park, but may not allow its patrons to bring a speed radar to a pitching contest the park might have, however that is up to the discretion of the park and has no legal bearing.

This analogy pretty much sums up what most online games are now a days. Youre privacy isnt being 'violated', because broadly the only information that matters is personal information you gave to the park admins at the time when you purchased your 'ticket'. That ticket was formed based on a contract you and the park came to an agreement on. The park can revoke that ticket whenever it wants, and you have no right to anything you might have accrued within the park (points, access to special events, club member perks, etc.) Any prizes(micro-transactions) you might purchase within the park you arent really buying to own, but rather you are buying access to those prizes.

So again, youre privacy is not being "violated" under a legal context. People posting stuff on FFLogs isnt illegal under the law. The most you got is a situation where SE is saying "Hey, dont you bring that speed radar in here." and people are sneaking it in and posting those stats online. The bigger conundrum being that most people who post stats online arent using htat speed gun to specifically record and ruin others, but rather record their own speeds so they can gauge improvement. Itd be a violation of the games rules, but its not a legal matter. As I stated, once youre in the park, you waive your right to privacy in regards to what you do in the park, as the park is private property.

So TLDR: Quit with the "My privacy is being Violated! The Law says so!". No its not. Youre being silly.

[Melondra]

The bottom line is this do you have the authority to access another player DPS Logs without there consent by means of third party software? The answer is no, if you were permitted to do that then that system would be made public in a game and it is not. Now if the information was only seen by you then yes that would be a great resource. The fact that every player in the data center can see your runs of ever dungeon along with your DPS ration without there consent is illegal. Now lawfully this may be acceptable but in terms of the TOS, you are not permitted to do it without the player concent. This is because this information can be used to harm another player and that is against the term of service. Therefore I will be forced to report this website to SE so it is taken down.

Rule VIlotation: 2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

2.6 Hacking and Circumvention. You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

2.7 Modifying or Creating Derivative Software. You may not modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game or Service in any way not expressly authorized by Square Enix, and may not make any derivative works of the Game.

[HyoMinPark]

This is because this information can be used to harm another player and that is against the term of service. Therefore I will be forced to report this website to SE so it is taken down.

The developers already know about this site, as well as the third-party tools that go along with it. Its existence has been well known to them for a while, yet it still exists. Clearly, taking it down is not considered high on their list of priorities.

As for the “information”, it’s pulled from the Lodestone and this game itself: your character information (name, avatar, data center/server, guild information) come from the Lodestone; the contents of the log come from the game’s Battle Log, just in a more condensed and easier-to-read format. For it “potentially being used to harm others”, so can virtually every other tool within this game, so that’s a weak argument at best.

[Ilan]

The bottom line is this do you have the authority to access another player DPS Logs without there consent by means of third party software? The answer is no, if you were permitted to do that then that system would be made public in a game and it is not. Now if the information was only seen by you then yes that would be a great resource. The fact that every player in the data center can see your runs of ever dungeon along with your DPS ration without there consent is illegal. Now lawfully this may be acceptable but in terms of the TOS, you are not permitted to do it without the player concent. This is because this information can be used to harm another player and that is against the term of service. Therefore I will be forced to report this website to SE so it is taken down.

Rule VIlotation: 2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

2.6 Hacking and Circumvention. You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

2.7 Modifying or Creating Derivative Software. You may not modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game or Service in any way not expressly authorized by Square Enix, and may not make any derivative works of the Game.

Better report youtube too because there are a lot of videos uploaded that are against the ToS too. SE knows about FFlogs, they can read you know.

[Melondra]

I personally think it is a cool piece of software and can be very beneficial in how you use it. Using it to better yourself-makes this tool very valuable. Using it to put down others is unacceptable.

[Melichoir]

The bottom line is this do you have the authority to access another player DPS Logs without there consent by means of third party software? The answer is no, if you were permitted to do that then that system would be made public in a game and it is not.

Under the games ToS (EULA?- I get these confused haha), you arent supposed to use parsing. But its up to SE to enforce their own "theme park" rules. If they turn a blind eye to it, thats their decision as a company, not yours. You do not have an real grounds to force SE to do anything in this regards.

Now if the information was only seen by you then yes that would be a great resource. The fact that every player in the data center can see your runs of ever dungeon along with your DPS ration without there consent is illegal.

See the problem is the use of "illegal". A lot of argument is this is illegal cause its a transgression against your "private" information." But the problem Im highlighting here is simply this: It's NOT your information. It's SEs. The only one who has any real ground for legal action is SE against third party websites that use the Parsing data. Thats it. You yourself dont have anything. As I said, you dont own the information in the game. What ever you do in game belongs to SE, not you. So other people dont actually need YOUR consent. They need SE's consent.

Now lawfully this may be acceptable but in terms of the TOS, you are not permitted to do it without the player concent. This is because this information can be used to harm another player and that is against the term of service. Therefore I will be forced to report this website to SE so it is taken down.

Again, no player needs your consent because the information isnt yours to begin with. Youd have an argument for that if, when you created your account, gave SE pertinent information that parsers took (like address, name, etc). But anything generated in game is the property of SE. As such, no one needs your permission. Just like player's dont need your permission to inspect your gear on Lodestone.

Rule VIlotation: 2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

2.6 Hacking and Circumvention. You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on Square Enix's servers, except as expressly permitted by Square Enix or applicable law.

2.7 Modifying or Creating Derivative Software. You may not modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game or Service in any way not expressly authorized by Square Enix, and may not make any derivative works of the Game.

So here's the thing. Rules like these are written broadly to protect proprietary secrets of a company. It may financially damaging if you could modify, alter, or intercept data from the game. These rules are also broad enough that if they want to ban people for using Parsers, they could. The rub, however, is how SE actually enforces their own rules. What you dont know (or maybe do but dont like) is that SE selectively chooses to enforce its rules for good reasons. The parsers are so ubiquitous in the raid community that banning them will actually hurt SE. They reason, correctly, that most players who use parsers may use them as a "present proof of being competant" but in reality use them more so for self improvement so that they can effectively tackle harder content. This is why SE turns a blind eye to it typically. THe only time they get on someone for it is that player is caught harassing other players in game with the information provided. So if youre in a pug, and someone is harassing you and denigrating you for your DPS, you can report them and they will likely get a suspension.

This is why, by the way, your efforts to report the site probably will be in vain. SE knows the site exists, and hasnt done anything about it for the aforementioned reasons. If you have a real problem with parser logs, then the best thing you can do is just be good at the game. Know your class, try to improve and play better, and you wont have any issues from 99.9999% of the players who use parsers.

[Awful]

I personally think it is a cool piece of software and can be very beneficial in how you use it. Using it to better yourself-makes this tool very valuable. Using it to put down others is unacceptable.

I've maybe seen 1 person be removed due to DPS and it was back in Midas where we had a BRD doing less DPS than the tanks and he got called out and kicked we didn't kill Faust in A5S due to his DPS, got called out, kicked, and we moved on. Did anyone lose any sleep over it? No.

We physically couldn't pass it because they were AFK/doing sub par DPS we didn't even put em down we just said thanks for coming but we need just more DPS and replaced and cleared it after I don't get why people think they're putting people down when they're literally holding groups back, you should know your rotation by 70.