[Discussion] A lore forum Discord chat channel!

[Alleo]

I am not really sure if that would be great for the forum. Yes some that might have been banned could post again, but for those reddit already exists. But for those that dont want to get into a Discord channel for various reasons, will kinda be locked out of discussion if a lot of the veteran posters write there. And I could see that this part of the forum might even die out a bit which also would be bad for all the newer people that might have liked to discuss things.

About mods: Thats another point to discuss. If you have a certain view in certain big topics can one really be not biased? Can one really be objective and fair in something they are 100% passionate about? Heck I would even see me as not objective enough to lead something without taking personal likes/dislikes into account. Honestly the only one that I could see as the most fair would probably be Anonymoose, anyone else would I believe be way too biased. (And I also dont really would want someone to be a mod if they are at the same time tone policing if they dislike when someone hates on something they like, or when they already told others that they are not true fans because they dislike certain parts of this game..)

So I wont stop anyone from creating things and joining such channels, but I also wanted to give my view on this. And imo this will just endanger this forum a bit, split up the groups, create more arguing while at the same time no real risks for people that want just to be mean. Here at the forum, being banned would hurt a lot more because you could not post anything anymore. On discord its just one channel. And seeing some posters with quite some personal insults already in their history..no I would not feel comfortable in that regards. Also posts can be edited even later with the evidence disappearing forever..in this forum you could at least still have it in form of other posts that used the text.

[Theodric]

Nobody is going to ban anyone for having a different opinion on the lore to someone else. I'm not really sure where that concern is coming from. I've never advocated for anything other than agreeing to disagree, so it's largely a moot point.

It's intended to be a place to discuss the game's lore. It isn't going to replace this board, it'll simply serve as a 'side dish' next to the main course.

It has the added benefit of allowing people to engage with each other more intimately, which is sorely needed given that some posters seem to have built up wildly inaccurate profiles of other individuals who come here.

[Alleo]

If the majority has a certain opinion about it then it could be that all of them are wrong, or it could be that they are right. Thats why I wrote that I could see Anonymoose as a mod but honestly not many else. And again agree to disagree is necessary in some parts, but just destroys honest disussions in others. IMO if someone wants to stop discussing things they can simply not post on the topic anymore or stop answering the person. Everyone else can discuss however they like as long as its civil. And I do have quite a few moments with certain posters that were quite rude..to something that was only an opinion on a topic for something that is not real.

I have also quite the memories of topics like the Ivalice quest line with the wine..and the rude comments there if someone disliked it. From not being a true fan, to not understanding it, to being annoyed that people moan about everything even though its totally fine to complain if its something the other poster does not like. So no I do believe that those concerns do hold up and it kinda shows in the posts in this topic.

But the part with the moderation is only one part of it and my other problems lie with the splitting up of groups, the possible deletion of old information and like others have pointed out, the lack of structure to the posts. I see no enjoyment for myself in a discord where you cant truly answer someone, where you might have to go through a huge line of sentences, which could be chaotic and more.

So I at least wont go into one, even with only certain people as mods. It just not so pleasant like the forum or even reddit.

It has the added benefit of allowing people to engage with each other more intimately, which is sorely needed given that some posters seem to have built up wildly inaccurate profiles of other individuals who come here.

I think that person could have used the forum here to show how they really are. I at least dont believe that I would view certain people another way if I discuss things in Discord with them. Heck I am quite sure that people that dislike someone wont even want to have a more intimately discussion with them. And again, I do try to make my posts in a way that will feel the same no matter who I am talking to because the information itself is important not the one posting it. But as alway most people are not completely free from such ways thus it might not alway be the case and I do know that certain topics will have certain answers from certain posters so some answers could have a bit more heat in it than intended but at least I cant remember any direct personal insults in them. But I do remember enough insults from other posters that were not necessary in any way thus its the posters fault for including them and thus how the people view them.

[Theodric]

That's fine. Not everybody is going to enjoy Discord as a platform for discussion. Yet this doesn't need to be a case of picking one or the other. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and could easily supplement their counterpart.

I tend to prefer using Discord to chat with people simply because it's much more convenient to share images, converse more casually and discuss off topic subjects without derailing threads. If there's an issue to be addressed, it's also much easier to message someone directly and smooth out any concerns. There's no PM function on this board so that can't occur easily, unfortunately.

As for the Discord chat itself...barring any inappropriate content, nothing is going to be 'wiped'. It also wouldn't be one individual making judgement calls, either - it'd be a group. That is, of course, assuming others step up to lead as well.

[Alleluia]

While you've put a lot of thought into this and it all sounds reasonable, I have to be mean and blunt here.

You seem to be putting yourself forward as moderator, and I don't feel like it's a good idea.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it gives me a bad gut feeling.

You know you have controversial views compared to many of the posters here. You seem to think you're "free of bias", yet so many arguments come from what others perceive as your bias in the opposite direction, and it feels to me like the least pleasant parts of forum discussions happen when you stick to an idea regardless of everyone else disagreeing with you - and then you say "let's agree to disagree".

Saying that doesn't automatically make someone fair and balanced. It can be used to just shut down a debate when they don't want to change their position.



As a general principle, it doesn't seem right to put someone with controversial, opposite-to-mainstream views about a subject in charge of the debate about that subject.

Moderators aren't quite the same thing as directing the course of discussion, but I feel like they need to be impartial, not pushing a strong opinion one way or the other.

Gonna say, I've seen Theodoric argue. Whether you agree with him or not, he doesn't tend to insinuate the people opposed to his pov are morally bankrupt, unlike some responses I've seen him get. And he approaches it all from the principle of "say what you want, cus I do", so I think he'd actually be fairly good at not kicking other people for opinions he disagrees with.

Personally I want a moderator who dings people for their behavior, not their ideas. If someone wants to put forth a thesis or speculation and support it, they should be able to,"mainstream" or not.

[Alleo]

Well if the forum itself wont suffer from that and discussions are still going to be strong there even with topics that were already discussed in discord, then go for it. I just fear that the forum will suffer from this and might split it up since we are already not the biggest ones anyway. I just wanted to post my view why I wont join it but of course I wont stop anyone else from doing so.

About the wipe: I meant it more like: Here you can still edit your post but if someone else already used it to answer you, it will show the whole unedited post. While in Discord (as far as I know) you cant directly answer someones specific post and the poster itself can delete it or change it. You might see the note that it was changed but not in which way. This could make it quite hard if someone (no matter what "side") wanted to hide away their post and others could then not argue on its case because its simply not here. I know that most people wont do that but the danger is here.

[Alleluia]

Oh, and name suggestion: The Lore Study

eh? eh?

... I'll see myself out.

[Lauront]

That exactly creates the fragmentation people have mentioned they wanted to avoid.

Equally, though, you can't please everyone, and if some people claim to be anxious over discussing what is essentially a voluntarily formed discussion venue for a game, of all things, I think my advice is salient. My suggestion would be to trial it, in any event.

[Yamimarik]

Personally I want a moderator who dings people for their behavior, not their ideas. If someone wants to put forth a thesis or speculation and support it, they should be able to,"mainstream" or not.

I'm sorry but I have to interject here. One, there is no reason to go after Iscah that way because what they say are VERY valid concerns here on the forums (not just the lore ones) as a whole! Secondly, you asking for someone who "dings" for behavior and not their ideals is the exact opposite of what would happen if Theo or the other one were to have ANY kind of control over said Discord.

There is only one MAYBE two people I could see being COMPLETELY unbiased on this forum that would actually uphold unbias in such an intimate setting. One obviously being Anonymoose.

I'm more of a lurker on the lore forums then I am a poster because usually most beat me to the punch on questions or discussions I would like to have so I just usually observe. And even though I have the two on my ignore list it doesn't block it when people quote people on your block list either, so it's another reason I don't prefer to post here on these lore forums either.

I understand exactly where those who voice their concerns are coming from in this sort of topic period, much less who has incited it is triggering their anxiety. Because it's very much doing that to me as well. And I mean true anxiety that I've been diagnosed with not just a hot button word people use when they are just feeling anxious.

As far as the topic at hand is concerned, no I don't think a VOIP/outside chat source would be best, at least for the forums sake. We already have places like reddit where if you wish to go there instead of here people will voice their ideas and opinion on the games lore and story.

[Alleluia]

I think people might be overestimating what would be happening on a lore forum discord as far as discussion goes, anyway. Its more like its a chatroom for people who all like lore and want to yammer at each other in real time. There might be shards of deep discussion, sure, but I know from past experience in other fandoms, having a chatroom didn't negate forum posts.

My example: I was in the Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom back in the day. Was very active on a large forum. Specifically, I posted in a lot in a thread for a specific character pairing I liked. The thread was the largest on the entire forum (not just its section, the forum as a whole) It was a lot of posts with a lot of individual posters. Someone decided to start a chatroom specifically named for that pairing that anyone could join, and many of the regulars did. It let us chat in real time to one another, allowed us to be more personal with individual users without clogging the threads we all posted to with extraneous or overly personal information. It allowed us to get to know one another better. (I still have a friend I regularly interact with to this day from that chat. I knew she posted on the forum, but only got a chance to get to know her and become friends via the chat.)

And you can bet we still all posted to the forum. Basically we would chat some about the pairing and the lore of the show in the chatroom, but if someone had an actual solid idea or theory, it never stayed in the chatroom. They always posted it in the thread or on a thread of its own on the forum b/c they wanted the long form discussion over it. They wanted everyone possible to see it and think on it and add to it, and we knew not every fan was in the chat. Real time chat didn't really cleave away any forum chat. If anything, it stimulated it.

Optional lore nerd chatroom will still be optional, basically. The forum will still be here and will continue to have posts, from everyone who chats in the chatroom and those that don't.