[Discussion] A lore forum Discord chat channel!

[Iscah]

Moderation would need to be fair and free of bias, though loose enough that people aren't booted out unless strictly necessary. I'm very much in favour of pushing for civil debate and the concept of agreeing to disagree when it comes to controversial aspects of the lore; especially things that are subjective.

While you've put a lot of thought into this and it all sounds reasonable, I have to be mean and blunt here.

You seem to be putting yourself forward as moderator, and I don't feel like it's a good idea.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it gives me a bad gut feeling.

You know you have controversial views compared to many of the posters here. You seem to think you're "free of bias", yet so many arguments come from what others perceive as your bias in the opposite direction, and it feels to me like the least pleasant parts of forum discussions happen when you stick to an idea regardless of everyone else disagreeing with you - and then you say "let's agree to disagree".

Saying that doesn't automatically make someone fair and balanced. It can be used to just shut down a debate when they don't want to change their position.



As a general principle, it doesn't seem right to put someone with controversial, opposite-to-mainstream views about a subject in charge of the debate about that subject.

Moderators aren't quite the same thing as directing the course of discussion, but I feel like they need to be impartial, not pushing a strong opinion one way or the other.

[Lauront]

While you've put a lot of thought into this and it all sounds reasonable, I have to be mean and blunt here.

You seem to be putting yourself forward as moderator, and I don't feel like it's a good idea.

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then. It's a Discord chat. Not a mortgage agreement.

This is all making me feel anxious. Both the overall situation and speaking up like this about it.

Er, right.

[Theodric]

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then.

This.

Though the ideal scenario is that the moderation team will be varied and not just an echo chamber/safe space. I want to establish a place where people can discuss the game's lore and not feel as though they have to tread on eggshells or find themselves insulted for liking a different character/faction to someone else.

The world isn't going to end if X likes Lyse and Y doesn't.

The world isn't going to end if A likes Garlemald and B doesn't.

It's a fictional setting. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. Some of us are more invested in the overall package than others, certainly, though I see no need or valid reasoning for there to be any bad blood.

[ObsidianFire]

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then.

It's not that simple. Some of us are already on the fence as to whether we would want a Lore Discord in the first place as we like the structure inherent in a forum (that isn't modded by the community).

Then someone, who has a reputation on the lore forum for having an obvious bias (deserved or not), wants to start a Lore Discord. The idea of having to deal with that person on a regular basis isn't appealing to a lot of people. It might even be enough of a turn-off that the people who were on the fence about a Lore Discord aren't on the fence anymore and outright decide they aren't going to get involved with the whole thing.

You can't just tell someone to start up a project they would never have started in the first place just because someone they don't want to interact with has started up a project they might have wanted to interact with if that person wasn't there.

[Lauront]

You can't just tell someone to start up a project they would never have started in the first place just because someone they don't want to interact with has started up a project they might have wanted to interact with if that person wasn't there.

Why, of course I can - and I just did.

Overall, I find this all very petty. In the end, this is supplementary to the forum. If it is not to your liking, you don't need to join. If you do decide to partake, and find it is not to your liking, you have the option of leaving and creating a venue better suited to your tastes. Discord chats are pretty low commitment to set up or join. There is minimal cost to trialing it and no obligation to do so.

The tone of it is "thanks for doing all the work of setting up the chat, but I don't like you, so I don't want you having any moderation influence over it". Strikes me as a pretty entitled mentality.

[Mieck]

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then.

That exactly creates the fragmentation people have mentioned they wanted to avoid.


On the idea in general, I'm on the fence. I like this sub-forum, and I think we would end up losing the little threads that often contain the most interesting nuggets. On the other hand, an increase in voices (from people who don't have anything to do with the Official Forum) is no bad thing.

[Lauront]

That exactly creates the fragmentation people have mentioned they wanted to avoid.

Equally, though, you can't please everyone, and if some people claim to be anxious over discussing what is essentially a voluntarily formed discussion venue for a game, of all things, I think my advice is salient. My suggestion would be to trial it, in any event.

[Alleluia]

While you've put a lot of thought into this and it all sounds reasonable, I have to be mean and blunt here.

You seem to be putting yourself forward as moderator, and I don't feel like it's a good idea.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but it gives me a bad gut feeling.

You know you have controversial views compared to many of the posters here. You seem to think you're "free of bias", yet so many arguments come from what others perceive as your bias in the opposite direction, and it feels to me like the least pleasant parts of forum discussions happen when you stick to an idea regardless of everyone else disagreeing with you - and then you say "let's agree to disagree".

Saying that doesn't automatically make someone fair and balanced. It can be used to just shut down a debate when they don't want to change their position.



As a general principle, it doesn't seem right to put someone with controversial, opposite-to-mainstream views about a subject in charge of the debate about that subject.

Moderators aren't quite the same thing as directing the course of discussion, but I feel like they need to be impartial, not pushing a strong opinion one way or the other.

Gonna say, I've seen Theodoric argue. Whether you agree with him or not, he doesn't tend to insinuate the people opposed to his pov are morally bankrupt, unlike some responses I've seen him get. And he approaches it all from the principle of "say what you want, cus I do", so I think he'd actually be fairly good at not kicking other people for opinions he disagrees with.

Personally I want a moderator who dings people for their behavior, not their ideas. If someone wants to put forth a thesis or speculation and support it, they should be able to,"mainstream" or not.

[Yamimarik]

Personally I want a moderator who dings people for their behavior, not their ideas. If someone wants to put forth a thesis or speculation and support it, they should be able to,"mainstream" or not.

I'm sorry but I have to interject here. One, there is no reason to go after Iscah that way because what they say are VERY valid concerns here on the forums (not just the lore ones) as a whole! Secondly, you asking for someone who "dings" for behavior and not their ideals is the exact opposite of what would happen if Theo or the other one were to have ANY kind of control over said Discord.

There is only one MAYBE two people I could see being COMPLETELY unbiased on this forum that would actually uphold unbias in such an intimate setting. One obviously being Anonymoose.

I'm more of a lurker on the lore forums then I am a poster because usually most beat me to the punch on questions or discussions I would like to have so I just usually observe. And even though I have the two on my ignore list it doesn't block it when people quote people on your block list either, so it's another reason I don't prefer to post here on these lore forums either.

I understand exactly where those who voice their concerns are coming from in this sort of topic period, much less who has incited it is triggering their anxiety. Because it's very much doing that to me as well. And I mean true anxiety that I've been diagnosed with not just a hot button word people use when they are just feeling anxious.

As far as the topic at hand is concerned, no I don't think a VOIP/outside chat source would be best, at least for the forums sake. We already have places like reddit where if you wish to go there instead of here people will voice their ideas and opinion on the games lore and story.

[Alleluia]

I'm sorry but I have to interject here. One, there is no reason to go after Iscah that way because what they say are VERY valid concerns here on the forums (not just the lore ones) as a whole! Secondly, you asking for someone who "dings" for behavior and not their ideals is the exact opposite of what would happen if Theo or the other one were to have ANY kind of control over said Discord.

There is only one MAYBE two people I could see being COMPLETELY unbiased on this forum that would actually uphold unbias in such an intimate setting. One obviously being Anonymoose.

I'm more of a lurker on the lore forums then I am a poster because usually most beat me to the punch on questions or discussions I would like to have so I just usually observe. And even though I have the two on my ignore list it doesn't block it when people quote people on your block list either, so it's another reason I don't prefer to post here on these lore forums either.

I understand exactly where those who voice their concerns are coming from in this sort of topic period, much less who has incited it is triggering their anxiety. Because it's very much doing that to me as well. And I mean true anxiety that I've been diagnosed with not just a hot button word people use when they are just feeling anxious.

As far as the topic at hand is concerned, no I don't think a VOIP/outside chat source would be best, at least for the forums sake. We already have places like reddit where if you wish to go there instead of here people will voice their ideas and opinion on the games lore and story.

Ok, so first, I wasn't going after Iscah. I was quoting Iscah and responding to the quote. if someone else had typed the paragraph I'd have quoted them instead. Iscah made a point and I responded to it. That's not an attack. I don't even honestly know who Iscah is and didn't realize I'd quoted them specifically till you said this. My eyes tend to skip over forum names unless I feel a need to focus on it. I just read the posts.

Secondly, who cares what a mods opinions are, biased or not? Its about whether they act on them against others. Only opinion of a mod that matters is their opinion on free speech and what speech is uncivil and punishable. If he's not going to be a dictator (and so far he seems to be trying to actively avoid letting any mod be a dictator via the mod panel model he's proposing) then in theory he can be a moderator. If he loves Garlemald and you hate it, who cares? I don't see him proposing making "hating garlemald" a kickable offense. Plenty of people have disagreed with him here on things and he doesn't seem to get personal about it. Garlean fanboyism aside, guy seems alright enough to me, and I stand by that opinion.