How is BLU New and Innovative?

[Burningskull]

To be frank, no one knows if it is or it isn't innovative just yet. In the same vein as people calling BLU worthless the opposite end lauding it as innovative is well wrong. Based on the information we have the approach is certainly different in the context of FF14. In the grand scheme of MMOs? I wouldn't say it is 100% innovative... but the, currently on paper, the idea of MMOs having a traditional trinity balanced set of classes accomplishing one set of endgame goals and having a differently balanced set of classes accomplishing a separate set of endgame goals is a first. Most MMOs do a type of mmo only (theme park or sandbox) and balance their classes against that type. FF14 will be the 1st theme park mmo to have 2 sets of balances that don't intersect at endgame.

Doesn't PVP count in that as well? So FFXIV will have 3 things that don't intersect at endgame.

[Fyce]

The job is intended for solo play in the open world. Some every job can do. Not only that, it's the world of ARR. Not even the new areas from Shadowbrings. You're also just killing mobs. Something we've been doing since the games release.

While every job can kill trash in the open world, there was no big incentive for it.
The incentive for BLU to do it (good exp method and spell learning) is new in FFXIV.

Is the fact that you learn your abilities from mobs new? I guess. But it's just random loot drops like Atma or Pony whistle drops tho hopefully not at rare. I see no difference in a mob giving me my ability from a random trainer giving me my abilities.

You have full control over what abilities you want to go and learn. You are actively playing while making your own gameplay style as you desire. Atmas absolutly don't do that, getting abilities from leveling don't do that, and getting them from job quests don't do that either.
Being free with abilities is new in FFXIV. (At least to that degree. Comparing it to the Logos system is ridiculous, as the scale is completly different, as well the gameplay implications and changes.)

The Masked Carnival? It's just an instanced area where you fight monsters solo to "test your Blue Mage knowledge."

An instanced arena designed to test your skills (literally) and skill builds while introducing the concept of enemy weaknesses is something new in Final Fantasy XIV.

If I'm wrong please explain. I'm genuinely curious. How is Blue Mage new?

I highly doubt that was genuine curiosity. You dismissed (or belittle to the point where you can dismiss) objectively new content and features, while sarcastically saying "the only new thing is being limited!".

If killing monsters is your only comparative criteria to know if something is new or not, then I could be able to say that FFXIV is the same thing as Doom. Besides, it completly contradicts the argument in favor of making BLU a "real job": if all you do is killing monsters, doing it with a "real job" or a "limited job" is no different. The only difference is that I understand how ridiculous that is.
But the point that you can use that argument against itself proves how silly it is.

[Tlachtga]

if all you do is killing monsters, doing it with a "real job" or a "limited job" is no different. The only difference is that I understand how ridiculous that is.
.

more like only difference is that I can do that in relevant content on my actual job lul

[Burningskull]

While every job can kill trash in the open world, there was no big incentive for it.
The incentive for BLU to do it (good exp method and spell learning) is new in FFXIV.

I can concede that. Incentive beyond leveling and crafting items is a good thing.

You have full control over what abilities you want to go and learn. You are actively playing while making your own gameplay style as you desire. Atmas absolutly don't do that, getting abilities from leveling don't do that, and getting them from job quests don't do that either.
Being free with abilities is new in FFXIV. (At least to that degree. Comparing it to the Logos system is ridiculous, as the scale is completly different, as well the gameplay implications and changes.)

Every job lets you control what abilities you use. The only reason people don't just Ice Mage things is because of the player base deciding what the best way to do things is. You don't think the player base will decide what the best actions are to use and in what order to use them will be?

An instanced arena designed to test your skills (literally) and skill builds while introducing the concept of enemy weaknesses is something new in Final Fantasy XIV.

You mean like a Raid is designed to test your skills? Or Stone Sky Sea? That's all this Carnival sounds like to me is a Stone Sky Sea that hits back.

I highly doubt that was genuine curiosity. You dismissed (or belittle to the point where you can dismiss) objectively new content and features, while sarcastically saying "the only new thing is being limited!".

I am curios. I have a hard time understanding things from time to time and this is one of them.

If killing monsters is your only comparative criteria to know if something is new or not, then I could be able to say that FFXIV is the same thing as Doom. Besides, it completly contradicts the argument in favor of making BLU a "real job": if all you do is killing monsters, doing it with a "real job" or a "limited job" is no different. The only difference is that I understand how ridiculous that is.
But the point that you can use that argument against itself proves how silly it is.

This game is designed around Battle Classes. You can't do the main story as a crafter / gatherer. You can't get to new areas without unlocking them through the MSQ as a battle class. You can't unlock trials, dungeons or raids, which you have to do as a battle class, without a battle class. Blue Mage is a battle class and should not be treated as side content.

[Vexander]

Well, Blue Mage acquires enemy skills/spells, so from that perspective, not only is Blue Mage a new Class/Job, it's innovative in that, theoretically, every patch could be delivering new skills/spells to learn. I find that rather exciting. Sure, it's a bit of a shame that it will exist outside of Duty Roulette/Party Finder, but I think it's still pretty nifty. It'll be something to do when my friends are offline, or when I want to do something on my own. I'm really looking forward to seeing what new, 'Limited,' Classes/Jobs will be added in the future. Beastmaster, Morpher, etc...

[Fyce]

Every job lets you control what abilities you use. The only reason people don't just Ice Mage things is because of the player base deciding what the best way to do things is. You don't think the player base will decide what the best actions are to use and in what order to use them will be?

This is not what I meant. Every job is designed in a very strict and restricted way. Yes, you can play silly and only spam a skill or two, but that's absolutly not what they are about, this "gameplay" is an exception. BLU, however, is designed in its core to be played like that, and Masked Carnival is the sandbox designed to exploit that aspect to its maximum.
Besides, current jobs have absolutly no choice in the order skills are learned. BLU does. That changes a lot regarding what we call the "game feel".

You mean like a Raid is designed to test your skills? Or Stone Sky Sea? That's all this Carnival sounds like to me is a Stone Sky Sea that hits back.

Both. You need the right skills in your hotbar, and have good skills as a human being to tackle challenges. The only content which already do that to a certain degree are Deep Dungeons. But they were far from being designed like the Carnival is. Carnival will be balanced around the idea that you are going in solo and try to solve the "puzzle" of having the right skills. PotD/HoH are not designed for solo, nor to appear as a "puzzle" (if anything, they're a RNG mess in solo).

I am curios. I have a hard time understanding things from time to time and this is one of them.

Fair enough then. Just don't dismiss things because you don't understand them the way other people do. It makes you sound biased and/or unfair.

This game is designed around Battle Classes. You can't do the main story as a crafter / gatherer. You can't get to new areas without unlocking them through the MSQ as a battle class. You can't unlock trials, dungeons or raids, which you have to do as a battle class, without a battle class. Blue Mage is a battle class and should not be treated as side content.

That's simply you defining a rule that does not exists. It's not because battle jobs were like that until now that it cannot change. Why being so restrictive and inflexible regarding what battle jobs should be allowed to be? That completly kill every possible instance of attempt at stepping outside of the established mold, which it's something people have been desperately asking SE to try.
Look at FSH. It's its own thing within gathering classes. It doesn't participate nor contribute in the same way or amount as the other two at all. Yet that's completly fine. So why making it different for battle jobs then? Just because of the amount of content dedicated to them? Well, I could very well argue that given the amount of jobs we have and will continue to get, it's absolutly not a big deal to make an exception. Especially if it brings some new gameplay features that are fun to play with.

Again, there's absolutly no rule regarding what battle jobs can or cannot be. And if there was such rules, it would be the creators of the game who'd make them. Not the players.

[AppleJinx]

[Fredco191]

Because its moves are apparently game breaking to where moves like bad breath will work on open world enemies.

However we cant be too judgmental as the content hasnt been released yet. Its the first limited job so I guess that makes it new

I was so excited to use Bad Breath on dungeon enemies. Now I’m just sad...

[Acidblood]

I was so excited to use Bad Breath on dungeon enemies. Now I’m just sad...

... So how exactly is it that you can't do that? Or did you mean to say enemies in dungeons above level 50 (initially) and / or via duty finder?
... Also, if you were excited to use Bad Breath then why aren't you happy that Blue Mages are getting the real Bad Breath and not just some (maybe cone AoE) DoT called 'Bad Breath'?


As for the thread, IMO Fyce has sufficiently answered the question, so if you will allow me the indulgence, I would like to flip the question and ask:
If Blue Mage had been implemented as a standard job in FFXIV, given the current limitations of the role and combat system (because, you know, reality), what new and innovative things could it have brought to the table?

[BubblyBoar]

... So how exactly is it that you can't do that? Or did you mean to say enemies in dungeons above level 50 (initially) and / or via duty finder?
... Also, if you were excited to use Bad Breath then why aren't you happy that Blue Mages are getting the real Bad Breath and not just some (maybe cone AoE) DoT called 'Bad Breath'?


As for the thread, IMO Fyce has sufficiently answered the question, so if you will allow me the indulgence, I would like to flip the question and ask:
If Blue Mage had been implemented as a standard job in FFXIV, given the current limitations of the role and combat system (because, you know, reality), what new and innovative things could it have brought to the table?

Being able to use monster skills in capped content. They don't even need to be OP, but the flavor that is BLU is what we want and we want to use it in endgame. I'm perfectly fine with Bad Breath putting a dot on a boss since most bosses are immune to most status. And guess what! Poison is a dot.