How is BLU New and Innovative?

[Fredco191]

Because its moves are apparently game breaking to where moves like bad breath will work on open world enemies.

However we cant be too judgmental as the content hasnt been released yet. Its the first limited job so I guess that makes it new

I was so excited to use Bad Breath on dungeon enemies. Now I’m just sad...

[Acidblood]

I was so excited to use Bad Breath on dungeon enemies. Now I’m just sad...

... So how exactly is it that you can't do that? Or did you mean to say enemies in dungeons above level 50 (initially) and / or via duty finder?
... Also, if you were excited to use Bad Breath then why aren't you happy that Blue Mages are getting the real Bad Breath and not just some (maybe cone AoE) DoT called 'Bad Breath'?


As for the thread, IMO Fyce has sufficiently answered the question, so if you will allow me the indulgence, I would like to flip the question and ask:
If Blue Mage had been implemented as a standard job in FFXIV, given the current limitations of the role and combat system (because, you know, reality), what new and innovative things could it have brought to the table?

[BubblyBoar]

... So how exactly is it that you can't do that? Or did you mean to say enemies in dungeons above level 50 (initially) and / or via duty finder?
... Also, if you were excited to use Bad Breath then why aren't you happy that Blue Mages are getting the real Bad Breath and not just some (maybe cone AoE) DoT called 'Bad Breath'?


As for the thread, IMO Fyce has sufficiently answered the question, so if you will allow me the indulgence, I would like to flip the question and ask:
If Blue Mage had been implemented as a standard job in FFXIV, given the current limitations of the role and combat system (because, you know, reality), what new and innovative things could it have brought to the table?

Being able to use monster skills in capped content. They don't even need to be OP, but the flavor that is BLU is what we want and we want to use it in endgame. I'm perfectly fine with Bad Breath putting a dot on a boss since most bosses are immune to most status. And guess what! Poison is a dot.

[EusisLandale]

Being able to use monster skills in capped content. They don't even need to be OP, but the flavor that is BLU is what we want and we want to use it in endgame. I'm perfectly fine with Bad Breath putting a dot on a boss since most bosses are immune to most status. And guess what! Poison is a dot.

Bad Breath is a pretty bad example of how you could utterly neuter a skill and still say it has the same flavor. Getting hit with that is devastating and will pretty quickly lead to death without a lot of luck and/or some backup. Just a basic poison dot doesn't even begin to feel like Bad Breath.

[Acidblood]

Being able to use monster skills in capped content. They don't even need to be OP, but the flavor that is BLU is what we want and we want to use it in endgame. I'm perfectly fine with Bad Breath putting a dot on a boss since most bosses are immune to most status. And guess what! Poison is a dot.

Define 'monster skills'; i.e. outside of the name, and potentially how you learn them, how do they differ from regular job abilities? For example, what would 'Bad Breath' (balanced for a standard version of Blue Mage) do that regular old Poison (i.e. Bio / Miasma) doesn't?

Define 'the flavor that is BLU'; i.e. what could a standardised Blue Mage do that other jobs can't? What experience would a standardised Blue Mage provide that other jobs don't?

Or do you mean that you don't care if Blue Mage is OP / broken and potentially turns 'capped content' into a complete joke? (As a true version of Bad Breath, Lv5 Death, etc. would)

[jon041065]

Define 'monster skills'; i.e. outside of the name, and potentially how you learn them, how do they differ from regular job abilities? For example, what would 'Bad Breath' (balanced for a standard version of Blue Mage) do that regular old Poison (i.e. Bio / Miasma) doesn't?

Define 'the flavor that is BLU'; i.e. what could a standardised Blue Mage do that other jobs can't? What experience would a standardised Blue Mage provide that other jobs don't?

Or do you mean that you don't care if Blue Mage is OP / broken and potentially turns 'capped content' into a complete joke? (As a true version of Bad Breath, Lv5 Death, etc. would)

1. There are variations for learning blue magic in past FF games but I'm fine with the FF5 method they have chosen. Monster skills would yes be some reskinned abilities we already have but also some combinations of them that we don't and some things that no job has.

2. Bad Breath could be a DoT along with the damage taken debuff like trick attack. Yes, it would be some homogenization but I don't see how you make the meta more fluid without doing that a bit or straight up pulling things we've had for years. Another way to work in bad breath for group content would for it to apply the fire, water, poison, miasma, and bleeding DoTs. First example still gives the fantasy of your enemy being weaker and the other gives the fantasy of applying a lot of status ailments to a satisfactory level in my eyes.

3&4. Be able to use enemy abilites. I don't think it has to be something crazy beyond that. A lot of us that have been asking for blu for years understood that there would be some compromising to get blu within the trinity system and were fine with that. The devs have done a good job for the most part with getting classic FF jobs to work. If the iteration wasn't received well, then they have patches and expacs to make changes based on feedback like they have made smn better.

5. Keep the shenanigans to the Carnival and other side content and then a balanced game elsewhere. That's a good middle of the road approach that would appeal to far more players than the current proposal does.

[BubblyBoar]

Define 'monster skills'; i.e. outside of the name, and potentially how you learn them, how do they differ from regular job abilities? For example, what would 'Bad Breath' (balanced for a standard version of Blue Mage) do that regular old Poison (i.e. Bio / Miasma) doesn't?

Define 'the flavor that is BLU'; i.e. what could a standardised Blue Mage do that other jobs can't? What experience would a standardised Blue Mage provide that other jobs don't?

Or do you mean that you don't care if Blue Mage is OP / broken and potentially turns 'capped content' into a complete joke? (As a true version of Bad Breath, Lv5 Death, etc. would)

Monster skills are just that, spells monsters have that we don't. They don't have to be EXACT carbon copies. In many games, they weren't. Mobs and bosses always had immunities to certain status effects and debuffs. Bad Breath never applied every debuff all the time as mobs did to s because we didn't have those immunities unless we have some gear that took care of it. Frost Breast is a conal AoE. Why would a BLU getting Forst Breath not just be a conal AoE? 1000 Needles is a radial AoE that does 1000 dmg. I don't even get what you are getting at besides the fact that you want BLU skills to be EXACTLY like the monster skill they come from without a single change at all in them. Which very few BLU skills even do.

[Acidblood]

Monster skills are just that, spells monsters have that we don't. They don't have to be EXACT carbon copies. In many games, they weren't. Mobs and bosses always had immunities to certain status effects and debuffs. Bad Breath never applied every debuff all the time as mobs did to s because we didn't have those immunities unless we have some gear that took care of it. Frost Breast is a conal AoE. Why would a BLU getting Forst Breath not just be a conal AoE? 1000 Needles is a radial AoE that does 1000 dmg. I don't even get what you are getting at besides the fact that you want BLU skills to be EXACTLY like the monster skill they come from without a single change at all in them. Which very few BLU skills even do.

What I am getting at is that in FFXIV there are relatively few things you, as a Player, can actually do to an Enemy, and even less to a Boss. Player to Player interaction is also quite limited, and beyond healing, quite weak (all for 'balance' reasons). Add in the restrictions of group roles, i.e. a DPS must be able to do a minimum level of DPS and thus cannot have too much utility (lest they be OP / mandatory), a sprinkling of balance, and your options for designing a 'raid-ready' Blue Mage aren't many... yes you can rename the skills, mixed up the button order and add some made-up gimmick, but ultimately is that really 'Blue Mage'? Or just another caster DPS with the name 'Blue Mage'?

Which is fine (for you) if all you want is a job called 'Blue Mage', however I've also seen it thrown around a fair bit that designing a 'full job' version of Blue Mage would be 'easy', or that the limitations should simply be removed... OK then, do it; design a Blue Mage that fits into FFXIV, still feels like a Blue Mage, and is balanced enough for raid, it's 'easy' right? Or, not so much... which is why I was asking for details, because saying 'Monster skills are just that' or ‘the flavour that is BLU’ as if it's somehow entirely self-evident says absolutely nothing.

Also, in the spirit of the thread, I was raising the question (paraphrase), 'well, what have we actually lost by having this version of Blue Mage; just a generic caster DPS? Or is there something more that I'm missing? Some awesome idea (new / innovative) for a raid-ready Blue Mage that would add more to the game than the version of Blue Mage we are getting come 4.5?'

[Nariel]

yes you can rename the skills, mixed up the button order and add some made-up gimmick, but ultimately is that really 'Blue Mage'? Or just another caster DPS with the name 'Blue Mage'?

If he learnd his skill from a monster he is a blue mage, blue magic is just this, magic learned from monster and nothing else. Warrior is just a paladin with an axe if you strip him out of all his substance.

Quite sure a "generic mage" with a the name blue mage on him wouldn't have cause that much of a fuss.

[Beckett]

yes you can rename the skills, mixed up the button order and add some made-up gimmick, but ultimately is that really 'Blue Mage'? Or just another caster DPS with the name 'Blue Mage'?

You could make this same argument for literally every job in the game. Every job ultimately comes down to an aesthetic, and a gameplay gimmick. We all know what the aesthetic of BLU is; BLU learns and uses monster skills. Of course we don't know what a group BLU's gameplay gimmick would be, and it's ridiculous of you to expect us to.

Do you really think anyone could have predicted that Red Mage's gameplay gimmick would be to cast black magic, hope to proc a different black magic spell that they could dualcast, then cast "white" magic, hope to proc a different "white" magic they could dualcast, until jumping from across the arena to do a 1, 2, 3 melee combo? Of course not. No one knew ahead of time how XIV's Red Mage would play, but people still wanted Red Mage because they love their aesthetic. And of course, those people wanted to be able to play with all their friends in all of this game's content.

As for the OP's question: We don't know what this solo BLU brings to the table. SE has given us a lot to speculate on, but until we actually play it we won't know if it's a fun and innovative new type of content, or just more of what we're used to but with extra limitations.