I don't understand BLU defenders

[BubblyBoar]

I keep hearing from them that BLUE doesn't fit into the holy trinity and it confuses me. The live letter straight up said that it was going to be in the caster DPS role. I'm confused about why people think they will be able to set up their skills and be tanks or healers.

BLU will be using caster role actions and caster gear. It won't have the defense or MND to do the other tasks. They have already said this in the live letter.


BLU's identity is not a class that can change its skill set to fit any role. I don't understand where this idea came from. Is it an FFXI thing? That's one of the few BLU versions I have not played. Are people basing this purely on FFXI BLU?


As far as I remember from all the BLUs I played in other games, BLU is a mage that casts monster skills. That was its only defining factor. Some of those skills were gimmicky and some were practical. Some were for fun and some were to make it a decent class. But in the end, it was just a mage with enemy skills. Where is this idea that it isn't coming from?


There's more to tanking than just having mighty guard. Aggro management, party protection, multiple mitigation tools are all part of being a tank.


The same is with healer. Just White Wind is not enough to replace the healer in your party. FFXIV healers have buffs, debuffs, single target heals, barriers, and all that stuff. ANd most important of all, they have the MND stat to power those things.


BLU is a caster with INT gear and low defenses. Sure, white wind can be a party heal that scales off INT, but what about everything else? Are they just going to give it so much stats that it can do everything? Why do that and purposely unbalance it when it could be balanced normally and enjoy content normally like BLUs in every other game in the series?

It seems to me that a sizable portion of the defending is not for the job, but the content. I understand that people want new and exciting content. I'm just not sure why BLU had to be sacrificed for that content. For those that are happy with the current BLU purely because they get nice content, or that it is solo focused, or because of the Carnivale, would this satisfy you instead?


Taking the logos action system, which is fun and nice, and taking it out into the overworld/premade groups in old content? That way, not just BLU, but every job can do what BLU is doing now (aside from BLUs gimmick of using monster spells).


-You can go out and find special logos actions and collect them.

-You can solo with those actions since they are overpowered and allow you to do so.
-You aren't stuck in the Trinity and you can respec to another role however you like using the actions

-The Carnivale can be a monster arena instead, so all jobs can participate with the logos actions in the same way

-BLU still explores the overworld to collect monster spells but those spells are balanced for normal content and BLU is no longer limited.



I understand that FFXI BLU purist doesn't like this idea, but this suggestion isn't for them. It is specifically for those that want BLU the way it is because they are looking for something new content-wise.

[Soupa]

Maybe people are tired of cookie cutter classes?

[BubblyBoar]

That's how FF has been since forever? Hence my confusion.

[Aerlana]

That's how FF has been since forever? Hence my confusion.

RDM in Final Fantasy are either heal or DPS. not "DPS with some healing" but clearly half both.
Not in FFXIV, where RDM is just a DPS job with some healing skill.

Dark Knight is a job with a large gameplay around "auto-mutilate" mechanics, to deal really wonderfull damages.
On FFXIV, it is a tank... so good bye heavy damages and automutilate.

Bluemage is in other FF the job with the largest possibility of action, protec friends, stun ennemies, damages them, slow them, boost allies etc etc.
Bluemage could be a DPS with some side usefull skill (healing like rdm and/or damages boost like bard/mch )

[Beckett]

Is it an FFXI thing? That's one of the few BLU versions I have not played. Are people basing this purely on FFXI BLU?

The XIV devs have always seemed to have this idea in their head that the only possible version of BLU was the version from FFXI. XI's BLU could learn literally hundreds of spells and mix and match them to fit any number of different situations. For example, while they were never the best at it, they could re-arange their skills to be a tank, or a healer. That kind of versatility obviously doesn't work in a game like XIV. Of course, XI's BLU is far from the only version of the job, so I have no idea why they were so dead set on it being the only option.

Maybe people are tired of cookie cutter classes?

If that was the one and only reason they gave for why BLU was a solo class, I'd be a lot less salty about the whole situation. Every excuse they gave for why BLU "couldn't possibly" work as a regular job rang hollow.

[Soupa]

If that was the one and only reason they gave for why BLU was a solo class, I'd be a lot less salty about the whole situation. Every excuse they gave for why BLU "couldn't possibly" work as a regular job rang hollow.

As weird as it sounds I think they’re right. BLU can’t work in FFXIV without stripping it of its base properties. You’d do job quests to learn abilities instead of actually taking the time to learn them as a BLU normally would. Even if you got these rediciously OP skills BLU is known for and put it into FFXIVs formula you’d have another caster dps with serverly disappointing skills compared to the actual skill. See summoner for examples of this. In every FF game BLU has been this weird obscure way of fighting by learning enemy abilities and only becomes good if you actually invest copious amounts of time into learning the abilities to fit the situations you need, job identity is an important part of the classes in this game as the devs have stated multiple times to avoid it feeling like another job. I have no doubt that if they had put it into the FFXIV formula BLU would feel just like a SMN without the egi.

[Beckett]

You’d do job quests to learn abilities instead of actually taking the time to learn them as a BLU normally would.

I can't speak for others, but I wouldn't have minded this. If every job quest was the BLU guild leader saying, "go out and learn White Wind from a Dhalmel, Leafstorm from a Treant, and Hydro Shot from a Pugil, then return to me." that would have been fine by me.

Even if you got these rediciously OP skills BLU is known for

Skills like Magic Hammer and Goblin Punch? The beauty of blue magic is that there are so many different options that you could use any combination of them to make a balanced job. You could even make up exclusive blue magic spells for FFXIV! You'd still want some of the standards, like Mighty Guard, but there's nothing saying that Mighty Guard has to be a party wide buff that negates all damage. It could just as easily be a self-buff that temporarily reduces damage taken. Or maybe it's the physical counterpart to Apocatastasis. The sky is the limit! Blue Mage, despite what the XIV devs seem to think, is not a job that's tied down in strict tradition, and it certainly doesn't need to be overpowered to be called a Blue Mage. A Blue Mage that doesn't have Shockwave Pulsar is still a Blue Mage

and put it into FFXIVs formula you’d have another caster dps with serverly disappointing skills compared to the actual skill. See summoner for examples of this.

Counterpoint: Red Mage. Just because they made a class people were disappointed by once doesn't mean they're guaranteed to do it every time.

I have no doubt that if they had put it into the FFXIV formula BLU would feel just like a SMN without the egi.

I'll quote myself from another thread for this one:

You could boil down any of the classes to that base level, if you really wanted to. PLD, WAR and DRK just hold hate and mitigate damage with different named abilities that all do essentially the same thing. But, of course, there are differences, and those differences in gameplay and aesthetics are enough to make us prefer playing one over another.

I have no idea what Blue Mage's particular gimmick could have been, but then I never would have predicted Red Mage's mana gauge either. As long as I was still able to use Mighty Guard and 1,000 Needles, I wouldn't mind being lumped into the Magic Ranged DPS category, or any other of the preset roles.

[Berethos]

The XIV devs have always seemed to have this idea in their head that the only possible version of BLU was the version from FFXI.

I hate to "well, actually..." things but...

Well, actually they've long been aware that they could do it the way they've done with all the other classes and put them inside a carefully balanced box with a specific rotation and set of abilities that has the flavor of the class but may or may not ever play like many of the older implementations or ever use the mechanics the job is actually known for. To think they weren't aware that a version of BLU could fit the same box as all the other jobs is just stupid.

Yoshida just didn't want to do it that way. Those interviews from 2014 highlight his thinking on this, that he wanted to do it this way instead of constraining it.

Also, I find it hilarious how many can already make judgments on how this system works and will play, with such comparisons as it's "just a variation of the Fishing log," before actually getting to play it or even seeing the system in action beyond "Action Learned" moments and a few slides. The ability to extrapolate such sweeping judgments from such little amounts of information never ceases to amuse.

[Nalien]

Personally I'd have just made Blue Mage a regular Job, with the skill "Learn" being its gauge mechanic and functioning somewhat similar to Astrologians "Draw". You could have a few different types of effects you could get via "Learn", but lets keep it simple and just have something like Lord of Crowns; Blue Mage would use "Learn", get something like Lord of Crowns out of it (namely, a fixed potency attack), but the animation and name of the skill would vary based on the enemy your fighting. Against a Malboro you get Bad Breath, against a Cactaur you get 1,000 Needles. They'd both do the exact same damage, but the visual/name would change based on the monster to provide that Blue Mage feel. Again, for the sake of simplicity I'm just sticking to one skill there, but you can easily expand the concept for additional effects while maintaining balance... Slap in some "iconic" Blue spells as regular actions learned via quests (with the quest essentially being what we're getting with this Limited Job, say Bad Breath is a regular action for Blue Mage, the quest has you fighting a Malboro to learn it) and I think it would have been perfectly fine as a regular Job...

That keeps to the spirit of Blue Mage IMO, while working with XIVs designs. This Limited Job concept effectively just being a variation of the Fishing Log is... Well, we'll see I guess... I don't hate the idea, I just wonder how much playtime I'll end up dedicating to it... I used to enjoy filling out the Fishing Log, but that's since ended... Similar thing with Triple Triad... This Limited Job seems to be similar content to those I feel, I'll just have to wait and see I guess. Disappointing not to have a "real" Job, but that sums up XIV at this point. If I got over Thief not really being added and Ninja butchered to provide a Thief aesthetic, I can get over Blue Mage...

[Kirsten_Rev]

I keep hearing from them that BLUE doesn't fit into the holy trinity and it confuses me. The live letter straight up said that it was going to be in the caster DPS role. I'm confused about why people think they will be able to set up their skills and be tanks or healers.

BLU will be using caster role actions and caster gear. It won't have the defense or MND to do the other tasks. They have already said this in the live letter.


BLU's identity is not a class that can change its skill set to fit any role. I don't understand where this idea came from. Is it an FFXI thing? That's one of the few BLU versions I have not played. Are people basing this purely on FFXI BLU?


As far as I remember from all the BLUs I played in other games, BLU is a mage that casts monster skills. That was its only defining factor. Some of those skills were gimmicky and some were practical. Some were for fun and some were to make it a decent class. But in the end, it was just a mage with enemy skills. Where is this idea that it isn't coming from?


There's more to tanking than just having mighty guard. Aggro management, party protection, multiple mitigation tools are all part of being a tank.


The same is with healer. Just White Wind is not enough to replace the healer in your party. FFXIV healers have buffs, debuffs, single target heals, barriers, and all that stuff. ANd most important of all, they have the MND stat to power those things.


BLU is a caster with INT gear and low defenses. Sure, white wind can be a party heal that scales off INT, but what about everything else? Are they just going to give it so much stats that it can do everything? Why do that and purposely unbalance it when it could be balanced normally and enjoy content normally like BLUs in every other game in the series?

Not strictly an FFXI thing. What you describe of a BLU is itself enough to not fit into the (un)holy trinity. Using your examples, White Wind and Mighty Guard just on their own represent more healing / tanking diversity than any damage-dealing job currently in the game, excepting perhaps RDM (itself a bit of a bender on the holy trinity front). And BLU is almost certain to have more than just a single spell of these types; after all, they said it would have 48 abilities IIRC, and there's no way that's reserved for 46 different ways to deal damage alongside a token defensive and healing pair.

You're likely right in that BLU won't be able to tank nor replace a healer - same as in FFXI, and in any other FF game that I've played - but it will likely be able to imitate those roles, particularly from a solo perspective, better than any job currently in the game.