Question about loot etiquette

[SekkerOfTrust]

If u really need it and they rolled to sell the orquestation maybe u should consider em to call ''friends''. Anyway u can rerun the instance and take ur loot, wont take much time.

[MuseTraveller]

Why it's dickish?

If someone said, "hey run alphascape with me!" and never stated they need x drop, I'm allowed to need it and do whatever I want with it if I won it.
If someone said, "hey run alphascape with me, I need bolts." and I state "Sure, I need bolts too.", I'm allowed to need it and do whatever I want with it if I won it.
If someone said, "hey run alphascape with me, I need the bolts, mind passing them?" and I state "Sure, I'll pass" then I press need then yeah I'm doing a dickish move.

Additionally, if you are in with a party, just run it again you will eventually get your drop. The person already got theirs, they can't roll again thus increasing your chances.

[DevonEllwood]

Your need doesn't trump theirs. The reason people "need" things is for advancing something that they enjoy in the game. People "need" for glamor, desynthing, item level, money, etc. I roll need in high end dungeons to desynth things because desynthing is something I enjoy in the game. If someone asks me to pass on something, then I will, otherwise I will need on it where viable.

[Blokeymon]

A lot of people talk about 'loot etiquette" like it's an important thing.

And it can be... provided loot is discussed before the duty begins.

If there is absolutely zero discussion about loot beforehand, then it's anyone's game, and anyone's loot.

If there is a hint or suggestion beforehand, like "Yeah, I need X item" or "I really hope I get a Y item" then there is still no need for others to give up their roll, as nothing has been agreed.

If there is an explicit agreement beforehand about what loot to roll on, and who needs what, then while I would hope people would stick to it, there's still a chance a randomer can snag it.

Sometimes this is impossible because 2 or more people need the same item. In a case like this, it helps to agree that all people in need of said item will just roll NEED and then continue to help the others until all have their piece.

Loot should NEVER be discussed once the duty has started. Saying "Oh yeah, also, I need the Z item, so don't roll on it" once the duty starts should always be seen as an invitatiin to roll, because lessons need to be learned.

It does sound like OP got salty for no real reason, as they didn't follow loot etiquette themselves. But let this be a lesson learned. If you go into a duty for loot, always make your intentions clear beforehand.

That said, I was one crank away from getting my Alpha legs, and I made this clear I needed it, and that I was only going in to the duty specifically for this item. A fellow FC member asked to join our party, and ended up winning the crank, and then logged off.

While it wasn't specifically agreed beforehand that they wouldn't roll on it, I was still annoyed they actually asked to join the party and then rolled on it, knowing I needed it, and then didn't stick around or even offer to help me get it. That was a dick move. I got it two runs later, sooo...

[InkstainedGwyn]

Why is it dickish because he didn't have the same purpose in going through the run as you? It would have been ok for him to be rewarded for his contribution if he'd needed what you needed, but because he didn't want the same thing he can't have anything? That feels really selfish.

Don't conflate video game and real world. Sure, it would be terrible for someone to take money out of a starving person's wallet to buy random junk when the other person needs food, but this is 1) a game and 2) you deciding that your ilvl is more important than what their goals in the game. It doesn't even matter what they're doing with the money - they did the effort the same as you, and had every right to need, same as you. And it's not even as if the bolt gets you much - an accessory runs at less than a week's Genesis and in most places under 300k on the market board.

If he'd agreed to run it for you to get your item and then had rolled anyway, I might consider that going against etiquette, because he went against his word. Otherwise, no. Your wants in the game do not trump others' wants for doing the same content.

[BillyKaplan]

the difference between the rest of the people joining this group and the guy rolling to sell the orchestrion roll is

Spoilers: There isn't.

"I'll help you out, but only if I get paid."

The only case in which this doesn't apply is if someone had already gotten their drop and goes in there again, but this was obviously not the case as their friend managed to roll on loot. Even OP only helped their party clear because they wanted the drop at the end.

[Emstidor]

It feels really dickish, and I was struggling to figure out exactly why. I thought about it and realized there's really not much difference between him rolling to sell an orchestrion roll and everyone else rolling for gear. Either way, your group is going to run the raids until everyone gets their drop.

Breaking it down, I feel like the difference between the rest of the people joining this group and the guy rolling to sell the orchestrion roll is

"Let's help each other out."
vs
"I'll help you out, but only if I get paid."

In both cases, all parties are getting something out of it, but one just comes off as a lot more sleazy.

In what possible way is it like the second example if the guy has no guarantee he'll get the drop he needs? He's joining the party to take his chances to roll for the drop he needs, EXACTLY like everyone else. There is literally no distinction except the one people make up retroactively because they got butthurt.

[Skivvy]

TIL you can actually buy things other than gear with the drops :X I may have to get back to running alpha.

[tdb]

A lot of people talk about 'loot etiquette" like it's an important thing.

In some games it is. In both Anarchy Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic I've seen people being kicked from groups or banned from publicly organized raids because they took loot that wasn't directly useful for them. With that history I was expecting something similar from FFXIV.

It does sound like OP got salty for no real reason, as they didn't follow loot etiquette themselves.

I wouldn't say it was for no reason, although the root cause was not what happened with the loot. Rather it was the dissonance between what I thought was proper loot etiquette (and followed myself) and what actually happened. Rather than accost my friend on the spot I decided to remove myself from the situation and let my emotions cool down. Then I made this forum post to find out if perhaps the general loot etiquette in this game is different from those I've played before, and based on the majority of the replies that seems to be the case.

Even OP only helped their party clear because they wanted the drop at the end.

Such deductive skills you have, almost rivaling inspector Hildibrand himself. But no, you arrived at the wrong conclusion. I was not on the run only because I wanted the loot. I also like helping my friends do things. I did some solo queues this morning and got most of my alpha loot (only missing v3 now, did it twice but didn't win), but if it turns out my friends still need something from there later this week (I don't know if they continued after I left) I will help them. Even if I've gotten the v3 loot as well by that point.

TIL you can actually buy things other than gear with the drops :X I may have to get back to running alpha.

It's only the orchestrion rolls AFAIK (one each for delta, sigma and alpha). I checked the MB to verify that my friend is actually selling those and noted that they are fairly expensive (almost 2 million apiece) but I didn't look at the history to see how often they sell.

[LineageRazor]

In some games it is. In both Anarchy Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic I've seen people being kicked from groups or banned from publicly organized raids because they took loot that wasn't directly useful for them. With that history I was expecting something similar from FFXIV.

While I haven't played those games specifically, I HAVE played FFXI, so I'm certainly familiar with cases where etiquette would apply. However, gear in FFXI (and presumably the other games you mentioned) has a lot of longevity. A rare drop can be valuable for YEARS. Additionally, rare drops were absurdly rare, compared to drop rates in this game. On the flip side, gear in this game is obsolete by design within months - sometimes far less. (That bolt you were after? ONE WEEK'S worth of Creation tomestones will give you a better accessory. It was obsolete out of the gate!)

Because of this, there are many, MANY criteria for character advancement that do not necessarily have anything to do with gear level. A player might feel their character is more "complete" when they contribute to their orchestration log. It might be more "complete" of they progress in their crafting desysnthesis skill. It might be more "complete" if it earns them more money towards purchasing a house.

The kind of etiquette you mention still has a place in this game. A player would definitely earn some sour looks if they snapped up a tanking piece from Omega Savage with all three tanks still locked, for instance, but this is mostly because Savage gear is a lot more exclusive (players can only open one chest per week). But common drops like bolts? Basically any use a player has for them is acceptable.