Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Bright-Flower]

The lack of patience shown in this thread is amazing. People all learn fights in the own way, and sometimes people will die repeatedly until something clicks for them. And then there is just the matter of skill levels that will vary greatly when you bring this many people together in an MMO. I do wish that SE would remove the penalty for dropping so that way people who can't be bothered to try and help a less than stellar group can just bail vs kicking someone. Some of us like to help these people, most of you evidently do not.

If you want near perfection, perhaps stick to statics and friends you can rely on.

Nobody's demanding perfect. People are demanding an honest effort, and at level 70, a basic understanding of how your job works.

[Penthea]

To be fair, it would help if the poster these questions were directed at would actually answer said questions. Instead, they opt to deflect and come up with more excuses to not answer the questions directed at them.

Okay but I fail to see what this has to do with me. It's not like I'm their secretary. It's not my job to answer questions on their behalf. I don't have a direct line to their brain. I saw someone misread a post and I clarified it, that's it. I said nothing about kicking, yet I became bombarded with questions that implied I was against kicking. It was a tad wtf.

But you did engage?

Please direct me to where I suggested anyone should be or should not be kicked. You'll find I said no such thing. I engaged in a part relating to when someone is told something regarding their rotation. Nothing about kicking.

If you want answers from someone who is against kicking...then find people who actually are saying that they are against it instead of flinging it at the first person who dares to quote you on anything.

[Sigma-Astra]

If you want near perfection, perhaps stick to statics and friends you can rely on.

No one here is asking for near perfection, we're just asking that maybe when you queue for Expert roulette that the healer do more than spam Cure 1 sometimes. It's not a crime to expect people to be competent at that level and why anyone wants to suffer a Cure 1 healer inside The Burn is beyond me.

[Skivvy]

Nobody's demanding perfect. People are demanding an honest effort, and at level 70, a basic understanding of how your job works.

I've personally only run across a handful of players that I find to be truly horrible, and with those I even stuck around. I'm not generally too picky. I do tend to run on my healer, so perhaps it's easier for me to help salvage runs that aren't going so hot. If you've got a bad healer, things are more easily doomed. Not claiming I'm fantastic, but I manage fine

For full disclosure, I do not run savage and I imagine tensions run higher there. I can appreciate that things get frustrating with randoms, but again, if you're looking to avoid that - stick with statics, friends, or make your own PF where you can dictate the requirements.

I'm not saying that people should just tolerate any type of behavior. We're all here to enjoy our time, and if something isn't working for you, there are ways to deal with it. But this thread does seem to be full of those unwilling to deal with much variance (which is fine), but also feel they don't need to bother with being civil either. Other people are on the other end of that screen, it doesn't hurt to not be a jerk when conversing with others - even when they're not performing to your standards.

If you want learning parties, perhaps stick to your friends or make PFs.

There, see how that works like that as well?

And yes, it is easy to reverse it, however, on the NA servers DF is used for playing with randoms and just giving things a shot. PF is for the more select groups. From what I've read here, JP servers have it reversed - DF is where you go when you feel you are fully capable, PF is for training.

[Daibunnie]

Please direct me to where I suggested anyone should be or should not be kicked. You'll find I said no such thing. I engaged in a part relating to when someone is told something regarding their rotation. Nothing about kicking.

If you want answers from someone who is against kicking...then find people who actually are saying that they are against it instead of flinging it at the first person who dares to quote you on anything.

Kicking is the result of someone refusing or unable to take the advice given to them about their rotation. No one has to mention it, but that's the easy option for dealing with players that can't adjust. You can find a dozen excuses as to why someone can't do a proper rotation, doesn't mean people are just going to accept it.

All I did was ask a couple of simple questions based on the given context that anyone can answer. I never asked you to answer my questions nor did I expect you to, but you tried to "clarify" what they posted and claim that I misunderstood them when they can easily reply to my post themselves.

Okay but I fail to see what this has to do with me. It's not like I'm their secretary. It's not my job to answer questions on their behalf. I don't have a direct line to their brain. I saw someone misread a post and I clarified it, that's it. I said nothing about kicking, yet I became bombarded with questions that implied I was against kicking. It was a tad wtf.

Seems like you're trying to be their secretary by "clarifying" on their behalf.

[Penthea]

Seems like you're trying to be their secretary by "clarifying" on their behalf.

My apologies. I didn't realise that trying to make a person understand a post properly meant that I automatically became someone's personal staff and also an avatar for all their opinions. I guess I'm due a pay cheque.

Also you're preaching to the choir. I'm not against kicking people for poor performance. I'm against being unnecessarily rude.

[HyoMinPark]

Okay but I fail to see what this has to do with me. It's not like I'm their secretary. It's not my job to answer questions on their behalf. I don't have a direct line to their brain. I saw someone misread a post and I clarified it, that's it. I said nothing about kicking, yet I became bombarded with questions that implied I was against kicking. It was a tad wtf.

No, you aren’t their secretary. But you did enter into the conversation, so questions can be re-directed to you at that point. That is usually how discussions work.

[Daibunnie]

My apologies. I didn't realise that trying to make a person understand a post properly meant that I automatically became someone's personal staff and also an avatar for all their opinions. I guess I'm due a pay cheque.

Then why try to clarify on their behalf as if you know their thoughts? They can easily follow up on my original post or those questions anyway, so why not just ignore my questions if you don't want to answer them instead of going on about a pointless argument.

[Penthea]

No, you aren’t their secretary. But you did enter into the conversation, so questions can be re-directed to you at that point. That is usually how discussions work.

So apparently rephrasing what someone else says means I take on a stance I made zero claim to. And it allows people to try to argue with me as if I took on that stance...even though I made absolutely no mention of it.

...okay...

Then why try to clarify on their behalf as if you know their thoughts?

Because I can read and saw you misunderstood something. Being able to interpret something differently counts as being psychic now?

[Dualgunner]

So apparently rephrasing what someone else says means I take on a stance I made zero claim to. And it allows people to try to argue with me as if I took on that stance...even though I made absolutely no mention of it.

...okay...

So having questions directed at you means the questioner already knows your thoughts and feelings on a topic you've entered into. Kind of kills the point of asking a question but ok.