Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It comes off as hostile though. The 90 question marks are not needed. You are already setting the grounds for bad things to happen in that run. If for whatever reason, the healer makes another mistake, what are you going to do, add 1 question mark to your already 90? Most likely a recrimination or two are going to slip, and from there it all goes downhill. The underperformer won't learn a thing, and the only thing you'll manage for them to obtain in that run is a bitter experience.

While debatable, even taken at face value, you're equating hostility with harassment. Those are vastly different things. Does it become less hostile if they type a single question mark? Putting all that aside, who made you the arbiter of player etiquette? People are allowed to express their annoyance. Now if they continuously heckle this hypothetical healer, you'd have a point. If done once? It's nothing. It certainly isn't harassment by any stretch of the definition. You're essentially demanded a safe space where people voice absolutely nothing except praise or remain silent lest they hurt someone's feelings. A potentially rude comment does not constitute harassment.

[Gallus]

While debatable, even taken at face value, you're equating hostility with harassment. Those are vastly different things. Does it become less hostile if they type a single question mark? Putting all that aside, who made you the arbiter of player etiquette? People are allowed to express their annoyance. Now if they continuously heckle this hypothetical healer, you'd have a point. If done once? It's nothing. It certainly isn't harassment by any stretch of the definition. You're essentially demanded a safe space where people voice absolutely nothing except praise or remain silent lest they hurt someone's feelings. A potentially rude comment does not constitute harassment.

It might not qualify as harassment if you take the incident as an isolated case. However, if hostility happens on a regular basis, I believe we could start considering harassment.

People are allowed to express their annoyance.

People are allowed to do so politely.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It might not qualify as harassment if you take the incident as an isolated case. However, if hostility happens on a regular basis, I believe we could start considering harassment.

Only if it involves the same people in perpetuity. If I type, "Can't I get a damn heal?" Towards two different healers, in two different instances, there is no correlation whatsoever except I died due to lack of healing and expressed my annoyance. This doesn't make it harassment unless we have some invisible "harassment meter" that fills up after every vaguely blunt remark.

You are allowed to do so politely.

Again, I ask, who elected you little miss fun police? If I say the aforementioned, your only recourse outside staying quiet is to offer your opinion for my critical remark. I'm under no obligation to care one way or another. That doesn't make it harassment nor is it against any rules. Is that remark blunt? Yes. But I wouldn't even classify it rude. Just someone annoyed they died due to a lack of healing. I've done that after dying three times to a tank buster I even over-mitigated.

But I suppose I should make absolutely certain I, instead, type "I'm sorry to trouble you, White Mage, but if it isn't too much difficulty, can you please heal me? Oh, oh! I'm sorry. I should just stay in tank stance. After all, I can't risk hurting your feelings otherwise I would be harassing you!"

[KaivaC]

But I suppose I should make absolutely certain I, instead, type "I'm sorry to trouble you, White Mage, but if it isn't too much difficulty, can you please heal me? Oh, oh! I'm sorry. I should just stay in tank stance. After all, I can't risk hurting your feelings otherwise I would be harassing you!"

I am jerkish enough that I actually might type something like this in-game tonight. I'll try to remember to post the results if I run into a situation where I might have to say this :P

[gamepob]

I am jerkish enough that I actually might type something like this in-game tonight. I'll try to remember to post the results if I run into a situation where I might have to say this :P

I am always for experiments so I would be very interested in the results. But in order to be "objective", you could try 3 different types of wording this. First one is exactly how Bourne said, second is the same without sarcasm, and third is "learn to play White Mage!!!!". Please, let us know how it goes.

[Gallus]

Only if it involves the same people in perpetuity. If I type, "Can't I get a damn heal?" Towards two different healers, in two different instances, there is no correlation whatsoever except I died due to lack of healing and expressed my annoyance. This doesn't make it harassment unless we have some invisible "harassment meter" that fills up after every vaguely blunt remark.

This isn't about you or your own harassment meter as an individual player, it's about people generally being called out, harassed or insulted. If a person is called out on a regular basis, whether it's you or somebody else calling them out makes no difference when it comes to qualifying it as harassment, as long as it happens often. You are looking at this too much from your own personal perspective. Start looking at the big picture here.

Again, I ask, who elected you little miss fun police?

Starting to show our true colours? It hasn't taken much from what I can see, all I needed was to express an opinion that didn't match yours. I wonder in what kind of stuff this sort of discrepancy translates to when you are in an ingame context. Friendly advice it was I believe?

But I suppose I should make absolutely certain I, instead, type "I'm sorry to trouble you, White Mage, but if it isn't too much difficulty, can you please heal me? Oh, oh! I'm sorry. I should just stay in tank stance. After all, I can't risk hurting your feelings otherwise I would be harassing you!"

You don't need to write all that, behaving like a civillized human being and not like a child with anger issues is more than enough.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This isn't about you or your own harassment meter as an individual player, it's about people generally being called out, harassed or insulted. If a person is called out on a regular basis, whether it's you or somebody else calling them out makes no difference when it comes to qualifying it as harassment, as long as it happens often. You are looking at this too much from your own personal perspective. Start looking at the big picture here.

Of which you provided no examples of; instead attempting to lump all three together. When called out yourself, the goalpost shifts or you backpedal. And like modifiers, you don't seem to understand how harassment works. If someone is being called out by multiple people with no connection to one another, they are all isolated instances. Therefore, it doesn't qualify. Furthermore, this logic, ironically, destroys your prior generalization since that "harassment" can derive from casual players as well as raiders. Yet you placed the blame solely on raiders.

Starting to show our true colours? It hasn't taken much from what I can see, all I needed was to express an opinion that didn't match yours. I wonder in what kind of stuff this sort of discrepancy translates to when you are in an online context. Friendly advice it was I believe?

No, you spoke in absolution and have presented your opinions as fact. My "friendly advice" would be don't make baseless generalizations and engage in arguments where you can't handle your opinions challenged.

You don't need to write all that, behaving like a civillized human being and not like a child with anger issues is more than enough.

Do civilized human beings generalize thousands of individuals based on the actions of a few? Is that polite because it sounds quite childish to me...

[Gallus]

Yet you placed the blame solely on raiders.

?

No, you spoke in absolution and have presented your opinions as fact. My "friendly advice" would be don't make baseless generalizations and engage in arguments where you can't handle your opinions challenged.

I'm expressing an opinion. I don't feel like I'm the one that can't handle a conversation with a discrepancy of opinions here. I haven't called you funny names or anything while you are resorting repeteadly to attacks and sarcastic remarks.

Do civilized human beings generalize thousands of individuals based on the actions of a few? Is that polite because it sounds quite childish to me...

I'm generalizing harassment and bad manners as much as you are generalizing the other side's sensitivity and refusal to learn.

[MoroMurasaki]

?




I'm expressing an opinion. I don't feel like I'm the one that can't handle a conversation with a discrepancy of opinions here. I haven't called you funny names or anything while you are resorting repeteadly to attacks and sarcastic remarks.





I'm generalizing harassment and bad manners as much as you are generalizing the other side's sensitivity and refusal to learn.

Has it occurred to you that this still completely invalidates your argument? You just admitted you're generalizing. You have no proof of anything.

This whole train of thought is a hot mess. I can't even understand how someone can come to these conclusions.

The very idea that the same comment can be considered harrassment based on the recipients history of being told that thing is asinine. This means that the first time a WHM is told 'heals?' it isn't harrassment but the fifth time it is? That is the most convoluted and potentially problematic thing I've read in quite a while.

Are you even sure you understand what the word harrassment means? It certainly doesn't seem like it to an outside observer. There is no situation in which 'heals?' is harrassment, least of all the one used as an example by Bourne.

I think you need to take a step back and think this through. Under your logic people could be reported for harrassment for basically saying anything about gameplay at all. It's insane.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

?

No bad is sadly not a reference, insults on the internet are something the average player has normalized. And every day that passes you keep digging yourselves deeper in the sewers you are all creating. You don't go around insulting because people deserve it, you do it because you can and because there's almost complete impunity when doing so online.

I've heard a lot of people in this thread mention that "people are too sensitive". It's absolutely the other way around. You guys have no business approaching strangers and offering friendly advice in the form of harassment, because that's the only real problem here.

Lot of assumptions and blame being tossed around here. The irony, of course, is you claim it's us who is too sensitive yet your replies suggest otherwise.

I'm expressing an opinion. I don't feel like I'm the one that can't handle a conversation with a discrepancy of opinions here. I haven't called you funny names or anything while you are resorting repeteadly to attacks and sarcastic remarks.

An opinion you presented as fact. If you think my calling you essentially the behavior police is an attack, well, explains a lot. Regardless, if you don't want to be called such, don't go around acting like you make the rules. Or does a very light jab touch that much of a nerve?

I'm generalizing harassment and bad manners as much as you are generalizing the other side's sensitivity and refusal to learn.

And doing a masterfully poor job of the latter. While the former... you just don't seem to know what harassment means. I, however, haven't generalized a thing. Don't try to shift this on me. That has been you alone.