How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Penthea]

I think that is the main point.

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't. There is no cure for bad or lazy players. The best thing you can do is get rid of them when you see them play poorly.

[jameseoakes]

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't. There is no cure for bad or lazy players. The best thing you can do is get rid of them when you see them play poorly.

The parses make it easier to spot them and then belittle/kick them which is the whole point. This has very little to do with learning tools, hence why I'm toxic for calling out FFlogs being a tool to exclude players, this all has very little to do with players improvement.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The problem with parsers is that too many people use a mere glance to judge the potentially more complex situation of their fellow players. They can make people lazy, and therefore often inaccurate, when it comes to judging others and/or themselves.

No one thinks this for the precise reasons you said. We simply want to push them off with like-minded people. If that Black Mage can't be bothered to learn their rotation properly, let them party with a Warrior who doesn't want to pop cooldowns. Meanwhile, all the players willing to learn and the more experienced players can party together and actually see more successful prog.

The parses make it easier to spot them and then belittle/kick them which is the whole point. This has very little to do with learning tools, hence why I'm toxic for calling out FFlogs being a tool to exclude players, this all has very little to do with players improvement.

Do explain how it is toxic to exclude players who are "bad or lazy." Those were Penthea's exact words. Therefore, you've essentially insinuated we should have to deal with whoever we get no matter what. Even if they're outright lazy and feel entitled to a clear. And no, you cannot lump in belittle into the equation. Harassment can and will still be reportable regardless of whether a parse is publicly available.

[Sigma-Astra]

The parses make it easier to spot them and then belittle/kick them which is the whole point. This has very little to do with learning tools, hence why I'm toxic for calling out FFlogs being a tool to exclude players, this all has very little to do with players improvement.

This is like calling a toaster toxic because it burned your toast even though someone else in your household turned the dial up...

You can't blame the tool, it's an inanimate object, only the user who uses it.

[Miste]

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't..

Are you omniscient? Because that is the only way you could claim it will have zero impact on player performance.

How do you know it won't help at all?

[Penthea]

Are you omniscient? Because that is the only way you could claim it will have zero impact on player performance.

How do you know it won't help at all?

I didn't say it would have zero impact. Wow. This thread is such an echo chamber. Good god.

As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did.

[Miste]

I didn't say it would have zero impact. Wow. This thread is such an echo chamber. Good god.

I just got here?

I asked you a simple question about something you posted and you are acting like this? I'm confused now.

[Penthea]

I just got here?

I asked you a simple question about something you posted and you are acting like this? I'm confused now.

My apologies. I just had someone else accuse me of stating players should be able to watch everything in combat and spot all mistakes without a parser when I said no such thing and I even said parsers are great tools for this. I feel like they're deliberately misreading what I say.

And then you say I said parsers would have zero impact on skill when I did not. I edited that post and clarified what I meant. I'll repeat the edit here: "As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did."

[Miste]

And then you say I said parsers would have zero impact on skill when I did not. I edited that post and clarified what I meant.

Okay well let me rephrase my initial question.

You said basically this: 'parsers won't noticeably improve overall player skill' changed the order of words around to make it more clear but this is what you said.

It is but some people have this funny idea that parsers will noticeably improve the overall skill of players...and well it won't.

So I am asking you...how do you know it won't? Facts? Proof? Anything? If not, I am pretty sure it is just an opinion and can't be used to claim what you said in this quote here.

I am not saying that parsers will make a noticeable improvement though cause we don't know that either, but the thing is we won't know unless we try a trial run of it to see how it goes.

I'll repeat the edit here: "As I said before I played WoW before and after parsers were common in the game. The amount of bad players didn't noticeably decrease. But the speed in weeding them out and kicking them did."

This is irrelevant anecdotal data. FFXIV is not WoW. It cannot be used to claim that everything that happens in that game would happen here.

[Penthea]

Okay well let me rephrase my initial question.

You said basically this: 'parsers won't noticeably improve overall player skill' changed the order of words around to make it more clear but this is what you said.

So I am asking you...how do you know it won't? Facts? Proof? Anything? If not, I am pretty sure it is just an opinion and can't be used to claim what you said in this quote here.

You could take a look at WoW and see if the general playerbase is noticeably better than FFXIV's. You'll find it's not, despite the fact that the game has had parser add-ons for over a decade. The biggest difference is the frequency of parser related drama and the amount of kicks that occur.

This is irrelevant anecdotal data. FFXIV is not WoW. It cannot be used to claim that everything that happens in that game would happen here.

Then please enlighten me as to what is so special about FFXIV players that what parsers did in WoW would not be similar to FFXIV?

I'm sure you'll respond with equally anecdotal data.