How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[KaivaC]

It seems to me that the dummies are not sufficient enough for those players who want to get better. It's nice to smack around a dummy in the 3 minutes that you get, but it's simply not enough, especially in a raid setting. The chances of Yoshi budging on this are low to null, but surely there has to be something that would assist with those of us stuck on PS4 that the devs could give us in an official capacity. If not an in-game parser, then maybe the option (key word here) to enable us to view how we personally did after an instance.

I hate having to be stuck on PS4 and having to bother people to help me figure out how I'm doing. Regardless of how many people have offered, I feel like a pest because at the end of the day, I'm still asking them to take some time out of whatever they are doing to help me. It would be nice to just have ...something on PS4.

Sure, there are the arguments that it would lead to toxicity, but if it's a personal meter that mimics what PvP has, or something similar, how can that be toxic unless you share the information with others? Anybody demanding to see what you have at the end of a duty can easily be reported. I just would like something on the PS4 side.

It's not cool that a select group of individuals rail against parsing in every form, incarnation, or whatever they want to call it and state that it's a crutch, cheat tool, an epeen stick, etc., then here I am desperately trying not to be a bad player and hearing their voices, I fear I'll never become at the very least a decent player, because they give so much opposition to even having an official option on consoles. Players who want to improve should be given something that allows them to improve, at their option. Again, bringing up that key word, option. Like Duty Recorder.

If the devs can bring in instruments, then I know they are capable of doing something like this. And honestly, until the devs finally cave in and put to work on something that a lot of people are actually asking for, this is just going to keep coming up by a lot of others. Honestly, if they can implement instruments, how hard can it be to put in some kind of parse tool compatible for PS4 that only allows you to parse yourself?

How would something like that even lead to toxicity? I can't wrap my head how a personal tool that only you would see (unless you decide to do something like share it publicly) would equate to an increase in toxicity.

[SilverObi]

Because people can be asses, and will use any tool to put others down. Do we need the ability to parse our damage built into the game? I'd say sure. Will some people use it to be jerks? Of course.

But we can't let that prevent necessary QoL additions. It's really simple as that

[Ramesses]

Because people can be asses, and will use any tool to put others down. Do we need the ability to parse our damage built into the game? I'd say sure. Will some people use it to be jerks? Of course.

But we can't let that prevent necessary QoL additions. It's really simple as that

This coins it perfectly for me... there are some humans that will continually relish in using this tool to put others down; thus, sustaining--and increasing-- toxicity within the player base.

And that, I cannot abide with.

[FF16Necromancer]

Because people can be asses, and will use any tool to put others down. Do we need the ability to parse our damage built into the game? I'd say sure. Will some people use it to be jerks? Of course.

But we can't let that prevent necessary QoL additions. It's really simple as that

This pretty much. That's why it's in a grey area right now.

[Tsumdere]

Not having parsers is incredibly frustrating, especially when they are needed.

I cannot count how many times I have hit enrage in PUG farms due to poor DPS and know exactly which people are causing the problem, but can do nothing about it but say "dps, do better (which never works because there is no individual accountability)" or simply kick them without a word. Not having a way to see your own damage... in a game where there is DPS checks in every single form of higher-end content is ridiculous.

A lot of anti-parse people cite toxicity as their main reason why they do not want them, but this argument is silly because people will use anything to be toxic. Might as well get rid of chat, or vote kick, or just the entire game in general... Man. I knew someone who will purposefully let people die if they don't like their glamour. Mean people will always be mean people, regardless of what tools they are or aren't given.

[Lunavi]

Not having parsers is incredibly frustrating, especially when they are needed.

I cannot count how many times I have hit enrage in PUG farms due to poor DPS and know exactly which people are causing the problem, but can do nothing about it but say "dps, do better (which never works because there is no individual accountability)" or simply kick them without a word. Not having a way to see your own damage... in a game where there is DPS checks in every single form of higher-end content is ridiculous.

A lot of anti-parse people cite toxicity as their main reason why they do not want them, but this argument is silly because people will use anything to be toxic. Might as well get rid of chat, or vote kick, or just the entire game in general... Man. I knew someone who will purposefully let people die if they don't like their glamour. Mean people will always be mean people, regardless of what tools they are or aren't given.

I was, and still am, against vote kick to be honest. I have seen people using it in toxic ways far more often than I have seen it used in constructive and helpful ways. it has been tanks in 2.x who tried to vote kick the MNK in dungeons for being a MNK, it has been people who have resorted to trying to vote kick whoever they think voted against the vote abandon they initiated after wipe number 2 on an EX primal.

I have rarely seen moments when Vote Kick would have been a "better" solution than the saltlord leaving.

[Kurando]

It's also a difference in mentality as well between the regions. The console version is very big in Japan, SE knows that and that's why the game is tailored for it and not just PC. Many JP players don't care as much as Westerners when it comes to getting better (through logs) because when it comes to doing duties, raids, Extreme etc they see it as a team effort over everything else. If a player is struggling the team will do as much as they can to help them out, whether it's going over mechs, giving extra support somehow, switching the group's jobs etc, it's rarely ever players being in it for themself. You go in to Party Finder on the NA centers for example, you'll often see "bads kicked", "wipe = disband", "show logs" and other similar things, JP players display a much different level of commaderie.

Parsing is very much a solo thing so it doesn't fit so much with how they play, and there is no reason for them to monitor the entire parties logs or care whether that person had highest percentile in their last instance you know. I mean I understand that some players may want to use it to better themselves, but unless the concept of it actually becomes more popular with Japanese players, then it seems unlikely the Devs would ever introduce an official parser.

[SenorPatty]

To be fair, unlike instruments, the NA/EU community is heavily divided when it comes to parsers. There's no majority front on either side so I can only speculate devs probably won't bother with it, especially with their don't ask, don't tell policy.

Any discussion regarding those parsers devolve into 50+ pages of spiralling arguments that don't really seem to go anywhere or tend to take the verbal slugfest route, which further supports my first point. There are not many QoL suggestions that generate that much controversy.

So I guess what I'm saying is that, until SE decides to put their foot down to finally and officially put their foot down and allow the use of parsers, they won't develop anything official for the ps4 version of the game. Perhaps one day, there'll be a third-party parser for ps4 if it ever should be possible.

[Aylis]

Perhaps one day, there'll be a third-party parser for ps4 if it ever should be possible.

Sadly it won't be possible without an okay from SE, that's only due to how the PS4 works. It would be a direct mod add on and something that would need to be downloaded and installed via the PSN. The creator would need to get a license from SE to have permission to modify their game. Which would cost the creator money no doubt if SE even says yes in the first place.

I know console hacking is a thing so it could be possible to work around it but that could open up a new world of trouble. I don't know how strict Sony is with console modding and jailbreaking but if they are as strict as other companies then when the console calls home for a firmware update it could detect you've done something and in turn brick the console.

[KaivaC]

Well....I intend to avoid getting into verbal slugfests. If this thread develops into a meaningful conversation, hopefully we may be able to show enough restraint to not respond back. Maybe then, this might get the attention that is needed to get the devs to come up with some kind of idea. However slim the chance is of it being seen by them, it's still a chance nonetheless.