Job/Role daydreaming

[Ameela]

SCH and SMN are two well loved and really useful jobs, so they're working fine.

They're working fine now because after 2 expansions the only skills shared between the two are Ruin II, Bane and Rouse. Other than that they're completely different jobs.

[Reynhart]

They're working fine now because after 2 expansions the only skills shared between the two are Ruin II, Bane and Rouse. Other than that they're completely different jobs.

Yes, and like my example above, I'm pretty sure you could easily create a DPS job based on a Gladiator if you reorganize some skill between GLD and PLD, because they'd still have different role and job actions.

[Ameela]

Yes, and like my example above, I'm pretty sure you could easily create a DPS job based on a Gladiator if you reorganize some skill between GLD and PLD, because they'd still have different role and job actions.

If we're using SMN and SCH as a benchmark then you could consider any melee job with two 3-button combos to be a variation of Gladiator, as the similarities are about the same.
Could also say WHM is to BLM as SCH is to SMN, the only difference being that the latter come from the same class.

[Reynhart]

If we're using SMN and SCH as a benchmark then you could consider any melee job with two 3-button combos to be a variation of Gladiator, as the similarities are about the same.

Technically, there's not that much difference between ROG and LNC. It doesn't prevent the game from creating two different jobs. If you take the Gladiator above, give it some debuffing spells, a "stance" that spends HP to buff each WS and a skill that deals more damage the less HP you have, you could come close to a real "Dark Knight" DPS that would feel very different from PLD.

Yoshida literally and openly said that they pursue simplification to make balancing future fights easier.

He also said thaty they wouldn't put unique builds for characters and unique effect on items because he thought people would be rejected if they didn't have the mandatory best setup...which is stupid, because ilvl is already a mathematically best setup and yet the world didn't burn when not everyone had a perfect Zeta.

That's why the stat distribution was removed, why elemental affinities were removed

Stat distribution was removed way after they decided that jobs would only use one stat for all. And elemental affinities were removed right from the start because they feared that some jobs might be pushed away...yet they have no issue having physical affinities that effectively pushed jobs away...

As for the role skills, I think you missed the point of role skills as stated by the developers. Their purpose was to make sure that every player had every necessary skill at their disposal without having to level other classes.

But, that's stupid. You want every healer to have Swiftcast ? Make switcast a native skill for all of them. You want every tank to have Provoke ? Make Provoke a native skill to all of them. Removing the actual cross-"role" skills (Like Internal Release for WAR or Stoneskin for PLD) make those actions just bland, and especially because there wasn't even a choice of what you should use.

[Ameela]

Technically, there's not that much difference between ROG and LNC. It doesn't prevent the game from creating two different jobs. If you take the Gladiator above, give it some debuffing spells, a "stance" that spends HP to buff each WS and a skill that deals more damage the less HP you have, you could come close to a real "Dark Knight" DPS that would feel very different from PLD.

My point is there's no real point to tying two jobs to a class when you can just make a completely new job with no restrictions in terms of how it has to interact with parts of a pre-existing kit.

[Reynhart]

My point is there's no real point to tying two jobs to a class when you can just make a completely new job with no restrictions in terms of how it has to interact with parts of a pre-existing kit.

Again, there is. It cost less money to create a job based on an existing kit, so they could create more jobs. And it could help people try different roles since they'd already be comfortable with the core skills of their job. If you know your LNC rotation, having a spear-tank could feel less frightening that having to learn the MRD rotation.

[Legion88]

Again, there is. It cost less money to create a job based on an existing kit, so they could create more jobs. And it could help people try different roles since they'd already be comfortable with the core skills of their job. If you know your LNC rotation, having a spear-tank could feel less frightening that having to learn the MRD rotation.

A spear tank would mostly be spear&shield and can't reuse the animations and weapons from LNC, so it would take more work.

Also for the GLA/PLD ones i would suggest to expand on the idea of a fast fighter with slim swords and fencing weapons like foil, epee and rapiers (to bad RDM already covers this weapon type) and buckler.

The branching can work, but mostly you have to readjust skill names and animations to fit the new style.

[kikix12]

But, that's stupid. You want every healer to have Swiftcast ? Make switcast a native skill for all of them.

Yes, exactly. That's my point. This simple fact is why I do not trust the developers with a more complicated form of talent trees or sub-jobs, ones that would bleed into different trinity role.