Should WHM get a personal damage buff?

[MoroMurasaki]

Allowing Aero II to consume any previous ticks already on a target and unleash them as damage upon the renewed application would be awesome. Whm would finally have a reliable spell for weaving that made sense.

This would turn Stone IV into a rarely used spell, though. Aero II would have a potential potency of 350 if you caught it at full-ticks. In the end I think this would be a potentially huge (like maybe too huge) boon to WHM dps because instead of the SCH/SMN setup of the weavable filler spell being a lower potency WHM would have the opposite.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it's early so I very much could be

[Shurrikhan]

Allowing Aero II to consume any previous ticks already on a target and unleash them as damage upon the renewed application would be awesome. Whm would finally have a reliable spell for weaving that made sense.

That would make every other cast deal 700 potency, though... Given that healers have a native 30% output bonus, that would be an effective 910, notably stronger than the effective 864 of Midare Setsugekka (w/o Kaiten)... And at minimum it would still deal far more damage than Stone IV. It would be an overbuff that reduces WHM dps to a single button.

Perhaps just a portion or <square root of remaining ticks> value and a slightly higher direct damage value would be enough?

[Kabooa]

Just give them an instant cast so they don't feel awful about having to clip Stone or use Aero early for a weave.

Aftershock
Instant
Spell
Effect: Deals Earth elemental potency of 70. Each use of Stone spells add 40 potency to this spell, up to 230.

This is scalable via traits so you can introduce it early. Effectively every upgrade to Stone adds another 'stack' for Aftershock.

It's a weaker GCD than stone so you primarily build it up to have an instant cast when you need it: For movement, for weaving, etc, that doesn't require cutting off potential ticks for Aero.

[Risvertasashi]

Just give them an instant cast so they don't feel awful about having to clip Stone or use Aero early for a weave.

It's an interesting idea for QoL, but WHM needs more than QoL right now.

[NobleWinter]

"Aero now instantly consumes any existing instance of its effect for one-third its remaining ticks' damage when replacing/refreshing it, increasing the direct damage from 50 to 'up to 150'."

I was referring to this suggestion from Shurrikhan before but was unclear about it. I thought it was awesome. I didn't mean to imply a whole new ability of my own making. Oops...

[DaulBan]

You could just make Stone IV instant cast and call it a day

It's not like it would be outrageous for Balance, just give them marginally better uptime in general and much better uptime on movement heavy fights.

As for the rest of WHM, i still stand by slicing significant amounts of recast off of their oGCDs. It seems silly with the amount of tools it gives, but honestly those don't matter when you're already not using GCD heals most the time anyways and the job still doesn't have a raid buff.

[Grimoire-M]

One idea I had in mind to help WHM specifically is to give them Divine Seal again. But it also applies an Overheal buff to the entire raid for the same duration. While Overheal is active the WHM's healing spells are able to generate shields based on how much they overheal when they overheal a player. This would have a cap, which is 10% of that player's max HP. The shield would fall off when Overheal does. I specifically wanted to avoid making it work the way Thrill and Troubadour do because then the other healer can also benefit from it. It's a WHM-way of going about mitigation while also providing them more throughput. I'd probably nerf the cooldown to be 90s like Largesse but let Lilies reduce it by a flat number per-lily if added.

I'd like a similar thing on AST that temporarily swapped your stance while granting the same heal bonus that Largesse currently does. Not the overheal effect I proposed for Divine Seal though, just the stance swap and healing bonus. Then give them an emergency Tactics style cooldown to also swap stances for the next Aspected spell. Allow both to stack so you could get an empowered spell in your own stance if you wanted. I'd also like to see the healing bonuses from the sects removed and Noct shields nerfed to match SCH's potencies in order to really sell that they're supposed to be weaker or equivalent to SCH's. That would keep WHM as the premiere throughput healer too, even on single target Cure I/II spam.

For Scholar they should allow fairy abilities to be spells again so they benefit from Rouse. If they need a potency nerf to compensate (Only Whispering Dawn would, really) then so be it. Maybe boost Fey Union/Embrace too, and any fey abilities they add next expansion. Nerf their Succor shields to their original ARR levels and remove critlo so their shields and Noct's can be equalized at a weaker level that lets WHM be more competitive with Divine Seal. Give SCH a 60s cd buff that gives them 100% crit rate for their next spell, Healing, or damage. Specifically 100% crit rate, so it can be snapshotted by their DoTs. That's intended to be a way to help with their personal throughput when needed and still give them an edge over Noct without also giving players critlo-deploy cheese on the level it is at currently. It's part of why Noct is so lopsided yet still bad to begin with. Their shields are good, even better than SCH due to their reliability, but everything else is complete garbage by comparison.

If the above happened for WHM/AST, remove Largesse as a role action.

Consider allowing shields from different players to stack too. That includes Divine Benison and the Overheal effects from my Divine Seal proposal. Mostly for 24mans/pugging.


That would give WHM and AST some options they actually need when paired together too. It won't solve the "SCH is king" issue but it helps the WHM/AST pairing get more access to mitigation and regens while helping SCH stay ahead in their unique way.

Also, how would you feel if Secret of the Lily gave your Stone spell a combo effect? Specifically comboing with itself to generate a lily. Meaning as long as you're casting them repeatedly you get reliable Lily stacks, but constant switching between Stone and other spells would hamper your generation, as your first stone spell would never generate a Lily. Would that work for WHM?

[Cerenessus]

The main problem with WHM is: the hp-pools are way to small.
It only takes 1-2 cast to fill them completly. And when all healers are designt to be able to clear all content (which is good - or else no one would play said healers), then you will have situation were "big green numbers" are just to big to be of any use.
Therefore other strenghts like support or dmg-output become more importent.

For WHM this means: they are good for progress and highend-content but become lagging as soon as people get used to the mechanics and wont need as much healing.
So asking for buffs is understandable, but still a bad idea.

When you have a class, you need to give them strenghts and weaknesses.
WHM steaght are big green numbers and weaknesses the lag of mitigation and support.

so if you realy want WHM-buffs then ask yourself: what nerfs are you willing to accept in return?
Because until now i only read about the buff you want, but not what you are willing to give up for it...

[Risvertasashi]

The main problem with WHM is: the hp-pools are way to small.
It only takes 1-2 cast to fill them completly. And when all healers are designt to be able to clear all content (which is good - or else no one would play said healers), then you will have situation were "big green numbers" are just to big to be of any use.

The other problem is the misconception that WHM's numbers are bigger. In a number of cases, AST's are bigger. But it's a bit of a moot point anyways because they're all huge, and they're all big enough to clear content that makes party HP yo-yo.

I do not think WHM needs nerfs, because its numbers - green and red alike - already aren't bigger and in a number of cases are smaller. This is precisely why many of us feel WHM is not balanced: There are many weaknesses and WHM simply gets nothing in return for those weaknesses.

And, well, it's not just us. SCH+AST is the go to comp because others have made this assessment as well. You're taking along a big liability for no tangible benefit. WHM does less DPS, same healing, creates enmity problems, and reduces the raid's DPS output. Only reason to take one is "I need to clear this content now and I can't find an AST."

[Cerenessus]

There is a threat about prot somewhere with the idea about removing it, because it is boring.
One Idea was to chance it to a WHM-cd that give a 10% dmg-reduction to all party members so WHM would have more mitigation.

Now the problem: all 3 healers have one field-effekt-skill:
asylum a placeable hot with a considerable but vailable cd where you have to stack to get most out of it
sacred soil 10% reduction with short cd that costs 1 atherflow also you stack
and cu hot+10% redution that leave AST unable to move.

all 3 skills have their pro´s and con`s but now give WHM new-prot:
10% redution same as sarced soil and cu but you dont have to stack, are free to move and have almost no cost in using it.
so how to you balance it?
the only way to justify giving WHM such a skill, would be to remove asylum and give it a longer cd when cu.

so again: what are you willing to sacrifice to justify giving WHM more mitigation in order not to make SCH or Noct-AST obsolete?
how do you want to make sure AST´s cards - their class identity - wont lose against a new WHM raidbuff cd?

dont missunderstand me, healers arent perfectly balanced - except SCH because he has to be.
but how do you want to make sure, that by buffing WHM , giving him more dmg, mitigation, support,... to simply make him a better and easier SCH/AST...

for me the only way would be to nerf WHM heals to SCH or AST levels (or massivly increasing hp-pools) but then again you could just play AST and thats not the the point of having classes in the first place...