How can we get more in depth character customization?

[Ruinfeild]

Unfortunately, "Illusion of Choice" will strike and make the entire thing completely worthless when theorycrafters math out the best one.

I wish it could be more in depth but, it just wouldn't work here. Not with any community.

Just wanted to fix something quick.

[Magic-Mal]

Just wanted to fix something quick.

I mean... This is the same playerbase that got rid of Accuracy, STR tanks, DoTs, Cross-Class system and actual PvP that had customization/more than 8 abilities because it was "too confusing".

[Ruinfeild]

I mean... This is the same playerbase that got rid of Accuracy, STR tanks, DoTs, Cross-Class system and actual PvP that had customization/more than 8 abilities because it was "too confusing".

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.

[MageBlack]

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.

Do you need examples of each of them? I can continue to look for you if you need me to. Just to be clear, the players were stressed so they had to make things easier, thats the story of the FFXIV community in a nutshell.

FFXIV plans to shake up tanks, healers and more soon.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Do you need examples of each of them? I can continue to look for you if you need me to. Just to be clear, the players were stressed so they had to make things easier, thats the story of the FFXIV community in a nutshell.

FFXIV plans to shake up tanks, healers and more soon.

this is a super interesting article! I wonder wtf Yoshi is talking about here:

"I believe players will be able to feel the effects of tenacity once the Savage mode of Omega launches next week."

[OurMom]

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

I think they mean the whole gauge design thing or whatever it's called.

When they were revealing info about 4.0 in that live stream on twitch it was mentioned that they went that route due to players complaining about not being able to manage their dots.

Also there's mmos with actual choice and while some situations/dungeons say certain classes are better for certain things. It's not really forced there however a lot of those mmos are sandboxes and the communities there seem to be able to handle it.

[Magic-Mal]

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.
[Tanks had a choice to either go full VIT for survivability or go full STR for extra DPS but less survivability. Two things happened:
1. VIT stacking was deemed useless because DPS was everything and healers could just heal them anyway. If they were skilled.
2. TONS of non-raiders players complained about STR tanks big-pulling in dungeons causing wipes because they would just die.

SE got rid of choice when they just simplified it and made VIT do everything.]

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.
[Fracture, Flaming Arrow, Lead Shot, Phlebotomize, Scourge, and Touch of Death, were all deleted entirely and Aero/Aero II, Bio/Bio II, Combust/Combust II were consolidated into single attacks to make it easier for players with the release of SB. We also lost things like old Cleric Stance because of players complaining.]

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .
[But Accuracy was the most important stat as a tank because you needed to know the accuracy cap to hit the boss from the front or else you'd miss lol. You also needed to know the caps for flank and behind.. DPS had the choice of getting full accuracy cap for security or having enough just for flank and back for extra DPS.]

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.
[Well, they broke it.]

Responses in bold. Maybe I might do it this way more often..

[Ruinfeild]

Responses in bold. Maybe I might do it this way more often..

Sorry, was going ham on leveling an alt so got distracted. Now keep in my that this is all agree to disagree on this stuff.

1.) That is more of a mindset I believe someone said between JP and NA players. NA players are all about 'faster DPS, take things down faster, that is all that matters' while JP from what I heard was the other side of it. For me, getting more DPS as a tank was pointless and made little sense even if the healers could keep me alive cause that wasn't the role I am playing. I am there to survive hits and make it easier on the healers and if both tanks did that and went down, chances are it is a wipe. People in NA may not like it but get used to the fact that tanks are just that, tanks.

As for before the change, I never once went the same route as other tanks and stacked STR gear (I was playing with friends of course) and we did encounters just fine (other friend did it half-ass). The change had little to do with 'complaining or confusing' I believe and just made the smart choice of not forcing tanks to choose between either stat and get expelled from raids from people just because they didn't follow the meta.

2.) I assume you mean that the spells were upgraded as you leveled so you didn't have to deal with multiple of the same spell on ya bar (such as I got miasma 1 on my bar and that is upgraded and replaces the lesser spell automatically) which is the same thing WoW does. I want a source on this complaint because the only one I can think of is button bloat so again, they made a good choice since they promised I believe before SB came out to help deal with button bloat (which only got worse).

As for cleric stance, that I really want a source since you seem pretty clear on saying the players complaining about this and that (which I doubt you speak for the entire player base). The only complaint I did ever hear about cleric stance was when a healer accidentally kept it on while healing. It would be noticed, laughs would be had, cleric stance would be turned off and things would continue.

3.) Vaguely recall using accuracy materia now that I look back on ARR but not sure if I ever hit the cap. I got close for sure but still had no trouble keeping aggro due to the rotations. A few misses wasn't going to destroy the entire run. I was still able to get aggro from the off tank and hold it rather easily unless bad luck happened.

4.) I tried PvP a day or so ago on my alt (just hit 59 but tried it at 57 cause dem glamours) and it felt fine to me?

[Elleia]

4.) I tried PvP a day or so ago on my alt (just hit 59 but tried it at 57 cause dem glamours) and it felt fine to me?

You never tried the older system then, I take it? PvP used to have all the same skills as PvE (certain ones worked a bit differently/some effects were changed), along with some additional PvP only skills you could choose from. There was quite a large skill gap in players who could use their kits to the fullest extent and those who would press a few buttons, perhaps not understanding the class to its fullest. It was good fun to figure out your PvP rotation and burst to improve yourself each match. Then with SB they pruned PvP greatly - a handful of skills for each class, with "auto combos" so that it's really difficult to screw up. Many people prefer to old system and feel that the new PvP has been dumbed down to the point of being unfun.

[Emstidor]

You never tried the older system then, I take it? PvP used to have all the same skills as PvE (certain ones worked a bit differently/some effects were changed), along with some additional PvP only skills you could choose from. There was quite a large skill gap in players who could use their kits to the fullest extent and those who would press a few buttons, perhaps not understanding the class to its fullest. It was good fun to figure out your PvP rotation and burst to improve yourself each match. Then with SB they pruned PvP greatly - a handful of skills for each class, with "auto combos" so that it's really difficult to screw up. Many people prefer to old system and feel that the new PvP has been dumbed down to the point of being unfun.

Old PVP was awful though. You know how a common complaint/observation about healers in FFXIV is that their healing is extremely strong relative to healing in other games, to the point where a capable healer can rapidly heal someone to full health in 1/2 GCDs? Under the old system, it wasn't uncommon for me to watch an entire full party focus on a single enemy healer, who not only survived the burst window, but was then easily able to sustain themselves once stun immunity and the burst phase was done. AGAINST A WHOLE ENEMY PARTY.\

If you switched targets? Now it was even easier for the healer to keep them alive. God help you if there was a second healer to flat-out make it impossible to progress.