How can we get more in depth character customization?

[MageBlack]

As things stand there is no way to customize your characters role, at least not in any meaningful fashion like previous Final Fantasy installments or any other MMO for that matter. This got me thinking about ways in FFXIV that it could be accomplished under the current Armory System lock they have coupled with the recent changes to the Role Actions that made things even more uselessly generic.

What if you could select your weapon, Giving you a small handfull of Job Specific weapons and the traits you would normally have for that Job, Then you could select your Role which would give you the bread and butter to accomplish that Role, Then you could select a subjob that would give you access to skills half of your main Job's level. For an example:

Job: Warrior
- Skills: Butchers block combo, Storms path/eye combo, Rage Gage, stance switchers, and the interchangeable Fell Cleave/Inner Beast, +
Role: Melee DPS
- Skills: Stun, TP booster, Emnity reducer, DPS Limitbreak, +
- Traits: Enhanced Strength 1,2,3, Weapon mastery, +
SubJob: White Mage
- Skills: Cure, Medica, Stone, Fluid Aura, Raise, Aero.

Now, I can see this leading to your cookie cutter "best setup" and cause more than a few balancing difficulties for the Devs but thats not really a bad thing. While it may be messy at first I think bringing back a system a little closer to 1.0 would help get teh devs out of this corner they have been painted into with such strict Jobs that have to all function basically the same within their role.

A different way they could make some changes that would accomplish Job diversity would be to not add in any new Weapon Jobs but instead have an expansion of each existing job. Like what they did with the Scholar (yes, I know they said they would never do it again but it was a great concept). They wouldnt even have to come up with a whole separate role for each existing job (ie make two new jobs for each) one would suffice.

For example:
Marauder/Warrior/Viking
- The Viking would be a DPS version of WAR that is focused on doing damage with that gigantic ass axe of his. Just a few tweaks in stats and skills would be all thats needed, wouldnt require an overhaul or a whole new job from scratch + weapon, etc.

Thaumaturge/Black Mage/Elementalist
- The Elementalist would use spells differently, be more mobile like the archer, have more support type abilities like the En spells etc.

Or, kind of along these lines, have Advanced jobs. It would be in place of the other ideas I've presented but open up much of the same functions. Give you Viking for WAR, White/Black/Red Wizard, etc.

I still wish they would bring back the elemental wheel to the whole game, this is the first FF they have thrown this out the window. Even though its pretty shallow, the Eureka system would work but it would need to be expanded on. These changes would also help with the boring gear we currently have, they could add in skill specific stat increases, Elemental bonuses, or trait enhancers.

Alas, I know this is all incredibly flawed and nothing like this would ever be implemented. Its interesting to see so many posts on the forums of ways the players have come up with to enhance the current game, some are outlandish, others are quite plausible, meanwhile the devs struggle to even properly incentivize their players let alone make engaging and meaningful content.

What ways do you think we can get more in depth character customization?

[Magic-Mal]

Unfortunately, "Illusion of Choice" will strike and make the entire thing completely worthless when theorycrafters math out the best one.

I wish it could be more in depth but, it just wouldn't work here. Not with this community.

[Ruinfeild]

Unfortunately, "Illusion of Choice" will strike and make the entire thing completely worthless when theorycrafters math out the best one.

I wish it could be more in depth but, it just wouldn't work here. Not with any community.

Just wanted to fix something quick.

[Magic-Mal]

Just wanted to fix something quick.

I mean... This is the same playerbase that got rid of Accuracy, STR tanks, DoTs, Cross-Class system and actual PvP that had customization/more than 8 abilities because it was "too confusing".

[Ruinfeild]

I mean... This is the same playerbase that got rid of Accuracy, STR tanks, DoTs, Cross-Class system and actual PvP that had customization/more than 8 abilities because it was "too confusing".

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.

[MageBlack]

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.

Do you need examples of each of them? I can continue to look for you if you need me to. Just to be clear, the players were stressed so they had to make things easier, thats the story of the FFXIV community in a nutshell.

FFXIV plans to shake up tanks, healers and more soon.

[OurMom]

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.

I think they mean the whole gauge design thing or whatever it's called.

When they were revealing info about 4.0 in that live stream on twitch it was mentioned that they went that route due to players complaining about not being able to manage their dots.

Also there's mmos with actual choice and while some situations/dungeons say certain classes are better for certain things. It's not really forced there however a lot of those mmos are sandboxes and the communities there seem to be able to handle it.

[Magic-Mal]

I would like a source on that quote. I highly doubt that a playerbase found most if not all of these things 'too confusing'.

Also no, the community didn't get rid of STR tanks, SE did. Changing it to gaining damage from VIT (or main stat) was a good move.
[Tanks had a choice to either go full VIT for survivability or go full STR for extra DPS but less survivability. Two things happened:
1. VIT stacking was deemed useless because DPS was everything and healers could just heal them anyway. If they were skilled.
2. TONS of non-raiders players complained about STR tanks big-pulling in dungeons causing wipes because they would just die.

SE got rid of choice when they just simplified it and made VIT do everything.]

Not sure what you mean by DoT's cause I still see them around.
[Fracture, Flaming Arrow, Lead Shot, Phlebotomize, Scourge, and Touch of Death, were all deleted entirely and Aero/Aero II, Bio/Bio II, Combust/Combust II were consolidated into single attacks to make it easier for players with the release of SB. We also lost things like old Cleric Stance because of players complaining.]

Not sure about accuracy. . .I never even noticed it was removed since as a tank main I always cared more about holding threat and surviving. Never had to focus much on accuracy. . .
[But Accuracy was the most important stat as a tank because you needed to know the accuracy cap to hit the boss from the front or else you'd miss lol. You also needed to know the caps for flank and behind.. DPS had the choice of getting full accuracy cap for security or having enough just for flank and back for extra DPS.]

As for PvP as well, I haven't done much of it, at all. A couple dozen times but nothing crazy.
[Well, they broke it.]

Responses in bold. Maybe I might do it this way more often..

[Derceto]

I mean... This is the same playerbase that got rid of Accuracy, STR tanks, DoTs, Cross-Class system and actual PvP that had customization/more than 8 abilities because it was "too confusing".

I wouldn't dare ever accuse at least 98% of the player base of this game, of being a Rhodes Scholar or anything. You can confuse most people in this game, by merely asking them to properly use the words "then", and "than" in a sentence.

[MageBlack]

Unfortunately, "Illusion of Choice" will strike and make the entire thing completely worthless when theorycrafters math out the best one.

I wish it could be more in depth but, it just wouldn't work here. Not with this community.

I agree with that, but I know lots of people who love watching Magicians. It can be fun, entertaining, and its a nice distraction from the usual, boring, hum-drum status quo. Also on the flip side theres time where players discover something never intended by the devs that takes on a life of its own, like the Ninja Tank in FFXI.

Knowing the penitent for people to take the path of least resistance that requiers the least effort the maximum gain was why i introduced the idea of Advanced Jobs. Even the way I explained it can be subject to change but I would love to plant the idea of Advanced Jobs in the Dev's ear hoping they take it and run with it.

Again, I do not expect any of this to ever come to pass, just having some fun exploring ways to shake things up. You never know what snippet will catch the eye of a dev (but i bet it will never come from an English forum.)