How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

[Dualgunner]

Which is the only thing you need in this game. Nothing in this game requires you to optimize using a parser. Do your rotation properly through mechanics and you'll be pulling your weight through any piece of content you do including ultimate.

Which Stone Sky Sea itself doesn't teach you. Good job, you can manage your 3 minute rotation on a static striking dummy. The dummy doesn't even simulate aoe to dodge, boss jumps, which are the most common places anyone fumbles with their rotation in content even as low as expert.

[thegreatonemal]

Which Stone Sky Sea itself doesn't teach you. Good job, you can manage your 3 minute rotation on a static striking dummy. The dummy doesn't even simulate aoe to dodge, boss jumps, which are the most common places anyone fumbles with their rotation in content even as low as expert.

apply what you do on the dummy in the actual fight. play the game you use the dummies to build up muscle memory. its job is not to simulate a fight its asking a simple question: does this person know the mechanics of the job they are playing yes or no

[Dirwen]

The people mostly advocating for an official parser probably already use the 3rd party one. Why even bother? This reminds me of the windower issue on FF11 and once SE finally added it was useless. People prefer the 3rd party version.

If its anything like FF11 then its the JP community that matters to SE when they decide on matters anyway.

[XiXiQ]

The people mostly advocating for an official parser probably already use the 3rd party one. Why even bother?

The people advocating for official parsers have a ps4, they have no method at all beyond SSS to measure their DPS. They have no 3rd party options at all, they don't even get logs beyond a few hundred lines worth.

[JunseiKei]

Source on that quote please. I know he walked out jokingly but I never saw that exact quote.

Me too.

I only know the statement for the great skill gap and he would think about implementing one when/if the gap would be smaller.

Would love to hand you the source, except it was from a live stream in 2016 in Las Vegas. The service only keeps the stream for 1 year before expiring it and making it unable to be accessed. I can't say I've had much luck locating the player Q&A.

That being a concern is a big nothing burger though. If they were truly concerned about exclusion they wouldn't have created DF features that allowed you to only queue with people who cleared, or PF features that let you exclude jobs or ilvl, or fight status.

There is a big difference between being able to clear the fight and performing to a degree someone else deems "worthy." Generally, the fights are tuned so if you know your rotation and can do mechanics, you can clear - even in savage (ultimate may be another story).

Yes, SE gave us tools to arbitrarily include and exclude people at our own leisure based on 'have you killed it before?' and 'we need this kind of party.' I'm sure you'd have been thrilled getting 3 samurai in ByakkoEX trying to use tank LB3 without such features. Or it might have forced people to do the fight the supposed intended way. Then again, I can't recall many co-operative games even telling you if someone is new to a fight to begin with.

However, none of that still has nothing to do with a player having the ability to see someone pulling 200-700 less damage than they'd like and decides to boot them.

And? Some people are jerks. Welcome to life. A parse or "gatekeeper" isn't going to change that evident by the fact despite parsing technically being against the tos, people are still jerks. Therefore, the parse isn't impacting it. People with a shitty attitude will have one regardless. And people who are otherwise decent won't magically become jerks if ACT were suddenly allowed.

It's apparently not enough SE turns a blind eye to people using ACT as it is, but the abuse is against ToS. You can't say you know parsing isn't impacting how people behave and treat others. Do you have a metric for this? Do you really think people will say they are kicking someone for bad DPS, knowing it's against ToS to use a third party program like ACT?

:| "Giving people metrics to judge each other, that will never affect people being jerks to each other."
*Watches every other facet of life prove this incorrect.*

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's apparently not enough SE turns a blind eye to people using ACT as it is, but the abuse is against ToS. You can't say you know parsing isn't impacting how people behave and treat others. Do you have a metric for this? Do you really think people will say they are kicking someone for bad DPS, knowing it's against ToS to use a third party program like ACT?

:| "Giving people metrics to judge each other, that will never affect people being jerks to each other."
*Watches every other facet of life prove this incorrect.*

If parsing impacted people to extent insinuated on the forums, you would see mass kicking and widespread complaints about it. And yet in the past year you could count the number of threads bringing up such a dilemma on a single hand. Parse abuse is the same boogeyman nonsense "raider elitism" and other such buzzwords are. You're generalizing the actions of a few.

Don't be obtuse. Judging people and harassment are not the same thing. I can judge you on the context of your post here and now. Is that harassment? If not, then please don't put words in my mouth. Nevertheless, if we're going to fault the tool. Why hasn't Vote Abandon been removed from the game? People spam it incessantly following a couple wipes, especially in 24 mans just to avoid taking a penalty. I can kick you for literally any reason, including "I don't like your glamour." I suppose we need to remove the Vote Kick option, hmm? These argument seems to entirely omit the fact harassment remains against the ToS. If I tell you to uninstall your game, I can be reported. It makes little difference whether I cite parse numbers first. Therefore, unless SE abruptly stops taking harassment seriously, the people who do act like jerks will end up banned.

But yes, let's assume adding an official parse or simply allowing ACT to be discussed openly will magically turn even half the community into raging assholes.

Ya'll heard of parsing in Pagos, now get ready for some next level parsing of less than high end content.

Next up, parsing leveling roulette.

People already do both. You can even upload dungeon parses to FFlogs nowadays. No one cares, though it would be nice to show DPS why aoeing large pulls is better than single targeting, but I digress.

[JunseiKei]

If parsing impacted people to extent insinuated on the forums, you would see mass kicking and widespread complaints about it. And yet in the past year you could count the number of threads bringing up such a dilemma on a single hand. Parse abuse is the same boogeyman nonsense "raider elitism" and other such buzzwords are. You're generalizing the actions of a few.

Last I checked, boogeymen aren't real. However, players kicking others over numbers is history - it happened - it's what made SE clarify that third party programs also included parsers.

I didn't put words in your mouth, nor do I care to address a strawman argument.

And? Some people are jerks. Welcome to life. A parse or "gatekeeper" isn't going to change that evident by the fact despite parsing technically being against the tos, people are still jerks. Therefore, the parse isn't impacting it. People with a shitty attitude will have one regardless. And people who are otherwise decent won't magically become jerks if ACT were suddenly allowed.

You made a statement without fact. You said people will be jerks and parsing won't impact that. I want to know how you know this and what did you do to come to this conclusion.

[RiyahArp]

If parsing impacted people to extent insinuated on the forums, you would see mass kicking and widespread complaints about it.

the problem would be the one two punch of parsers and making casual content harder, which a lot of pro-parser people lump together. Casual content being trivial is what keeps parsers from having an impact outside of hard raids. Keep in mind too, if they make parsers legal, eventually they will design content based on people having them, i.e. much more frequent dps checks.

[Dualgunner]

apply what you do on the dummy in the actual fight. play the game you use the dummies to build up muscle memory. its job is not to simulate a fight its asking a simple question: does this person know the mechanics of the job they are playing yes or no

EDIT:

Therein lies the principle issue with relying on Stone Sky Sea as a stand-in for a parser, or even as a gatekeeper. Not every fight will let you belt off your optimal rotation; whether it's due to boss jumping, aoes pulling you out of melee range, repeated aoe dropping giving no time for even a slidecast, or many many other things, a static dummy will not be good preparation for that.

A parser helps in the making of decisions regarding rotation optimization. What gives me the bigger damage output in the end; using embolden on cooldown and executing a double emboldened finisher on the Level Checker in O11S? Or holding it and executing it after Level Checker, since my group can kill Level Checker in either case and using a burst window on the boss is a better use of the group's time?

[thegreatonemal]

EDIT:

Therein lies the principle issue with relying on Stone Sky Sea as a stand-in for a parser, or even as a gatekeeper. Not every fight will let you belt off your optimal rotation; whether it's due to boss jumping, aoes pulling you out of melee range, repeated aoe dropping giving no time for even a slidecast, or many many other things, a static dummy will not be good preparation for that.

A parser helps in the making of decisions regarding rotation optimization. What gives me the bigger damage output in the end; using embolden on cooldown and executing a double emboldened finisher on the Level Checker in O11S? Or holding it and executing it after Level Checker, since my group can kill Level Checker in either case and using a burst window on the boss is a better use of the group's time?

Will either of those things lead to A: A much quicker kill time. B: A clear instead of an enrage wipe.

The answer to both of those is it wont. Sure will those things lead to a slightly better personal 4 digit number at the end of the fight? Sure, but it doesn't do A or B so its pointless and no need to waste official resource on so you can do something that doesn't matter in the grand scheme.

I don't have experience with with o3s just yet but assuming what you say is true then that means there are 2 fights in all of stormblood that require a change to the opener which is the new trail and this fight every other fight in this expansion and pretty much all of them from the last you can just use the muscle memory gained from hitting that dummy