So, how is Pagos?

[Hyperia]

I'm starting to think that the damage is done and it may be unrecoverable at this point after talking to friends and others.

When they first released Anemos, it was an unforgiving, unfun grindfest that was only saved by players who figured out how to create the FATE train. Then the content started to become enjoyable and fun, even though that was not what the devs intended. I made many new friends and had so much fun that I forgot about how bad Eureka's start was, I eventually started to spend all my playtime in Eureka. It truly wonderful.

Then came Pagos...

I went in with optimism and enthusiasm thinking that we were going to have another fun ride on the FATE train only to encounter the cold, harsh relativity of what Pagos really was. The devs enforced their view of what Eureka should be and worked hard to prevent the FATE train using some of the meanest traps I have seen in this game. Players cried out that this was not what we wanted and then the number of players started to plummeted. Yoshi ordered an immediate tripling of FATE EXP to try and perform some emergency damage control but upon hitting 35 and finding a gigantic light grind wall, many lost hope and gave up. Patch 4.4 essentially finished it off and while they realize what has happened and are promising to make things better... I feel its too late. Too many of us are blocked by Pagos and the intense desire to never step foot in there again due to all of the bad memories and hard feelings encountered there.

Even if Pyros is a relic under every bed and so awesome that fireworks go off every night, I feel that Pagos will always be there, saying "this far and no farther". This is the danger of chained content, one bad link and its all over, even if the ending is magnificent. SE, your steadfast insistence that we grind in an unforgiving, unfriendly and harsh zone has broken my desire to continue in Eureka.

[Ramesses]

Even if Pyros is a relic under every bed and so awesome that fireworks go off every night, I feel that Pagos will always be there, saying "this far and no farther". This is the danger of chained content, one bad link and its all over, even if the ending is magnificent. SE, your steadfast insistence that we grind in an unforgiving, unfriendly and harsh zone has broken my desire to continue in Eureka.

My sentiments as well... and the real remedy will be to give us an alternative method in which to progress with our relics, That they have gated the relics behind Pagos is what infuriates me the most.

[Mesarthim]

I might do the challenge log but my weapon progress is likely staying at a grand total of nothing. Going to have to find room for these outdated anemos weapons on a retainer.

[Solarra]

Luckily you don't have to have the relic "finished" to do Pyros or a LOT of folks wouldn't be in there.

But without the Pagos weapon to upgrade will there be any point in going into Pyros? And since the relic is coming so late in the expansion, is it really going to be worth going to all the effort to get it?
For me, the answer to both those questions is, 'No'.

Like others, I think the damage may be too great at this point. The people who really, really wanted their relic have got it and left, with the result that Pagos is even less viable due to the low number of people in there. Without significant changes to Pagos and higher participation from players (who can now get much better weapons elsewhere), I think Pyros is going to be dead on arrival.

[Jandor]

I think I missed the boat on Pagos, I went back in after the FATEs were altered but even then it felt too little too late. It's just so tedious and boring, and as of 4.4, empty.

Even if Pyros is better I'm pretty much locked out of it now I reckon, unless Pagos is nerfed to death, which honestly almost feels a tad unfair to those that did stick it out.

[Reynhart]

You are assuming it will be a better weapon.
They said its better in *EUREKA* with bonus stats... WHILE in eureka...

I'm assuming that it will follow the same trend as the Zodiac and the Anima, meaning that the final ilvl of the Eureka weapon will be on par with Savage, before taking into account the better itemization since you will be able to choose the secondary stats.

As for the value :

•The secondaries that go above item level formulas allow will also be usable outside Eureka

Is this a translation mistake from here ?

[TheGrimace]

I'm one of those who "stuck it out" for a weapon and I have a bunch of negative opinions about Pagos in this thread. Please, nerf the heck out of Pagos. Do whatever you can to make it fun.

[Alleo]

Even if Pyros is a relic under every bed and so awesome that fireworks go off every night, I feel that Pagos will always be there, saying "this far and no farther". This is the danger of chained content, one bad link and its all over, even if the ending is magnificent. SE, your steadfast insistence that we grind in an unforgiving, unfriendly and harsh zone has broken my desire to continue in Eureka.

Thats my problem with this too. At least with Diadem you did not need the first version (as far as I can remember) to get into the second one, yet here, if somehow the next or the last Eureka part will be fantastic, then that would still mean that people have to go through the older parts to get there. Which would be quite a lot of hours..and thats without the relic weapons. Now the second question: Why would I even do this content if its not for the relic weapon? Because it only exists for that sole reason. (And at least for me, mounts or minions are not a good carrot on the stick for this content) So to make it even worth the time you still would need to at least do one relic thus who knows how many hours in total..and that for a casual relic..

At least the old ones are all still there to do, even if most people wont do it. Will it be even possible to finish this relic if most people have done theirs and are doing the content of the next expansion?

[BillyKaplan]

Why would I even do this content if its not for the relic weapon? Because it only exists for that sole reason.

The story touches upon one of the unsolved mysteries from ARR - what happened to the isle of Val, and the Students of Baldesion? Which for the longest time remained unacknowledged to the point I feel like they might as well have ignored it outright, just said the Ascians Ultima'd it, and be done with it. Especially if what they gated it behind is Eureka. It's a story bit myself and many others are interested in, but now will likely have to pass on, at least until they nerf it to the ground. Let me buy it all with poetics like every relic eventually.

The thing is, I feel like if they hadn't have tied the relic to it, the questline alone had the potential to be some of the most engaging, fascinating experiences in the game, because a big part of what takes Eureka down is the grind. Remove the relic, remove the ridiculous need for a grind, and then whoever wants that story can go at it at their own pace with much less mindless muscle destruction to go through. Thing is, then they have no reason to create such a zone in the first place. It's a lot of circumstances that ruined everything

[Nariel]

The story touches upon one of the unsolved mysteries from ARR - what happened to the isle of Val, and the Students of Baldesion? Which for the longest time remained unacknowledged to the point I feel like they might as well have ignored it outright, just said the Ascians Ultima'd it, and be done with it. Especially if what they gated it behind is Eureka. It's a story bit myself and many others are interested in, but now will likely have to pass on, at least until they nerf it to the ground. Let me buy it all with poetics like every relic eventually.

The thing is, I feel like if they hadn't have tied the relic to it, the questline alone had the potential to be some of the most engaging, fascinating experiences in the game, because a big part of what takes Eureka down is the grind. Remove the relic, remove the ridiculous need for a grind, and then whoever wants that story can go at it at their own pace with much less mindless muscle destruction to go through. Thing is, then they have no reason to create such a zone in the first place. It's a lot of circumstances that ruined everything

I agree, its even more sad that the story, the mystery of Isle of Val is so boring. Its a tedious series of fetch the ball quest with a boring rivalry to try to spice it up to get a cutscene when you finish.

Its really badly done, why we don't have the urge to discover thing in there, breaking the mystery. Finding note here and there, mysterious thing to report to Krile that lead to the final truth. A bit of echoe to add even more pieces to this huge puzzle. But no, "go grind and go fetch the stone and your deus ex machina echoe will do the rest".

This content rely on relic grind like a old man in a coma. Just pull the plug and let it rest in peace.