Revelations from Patch 4.4

[Lauront]

I feel that there is a small nuance:

Solus says he created the empire to sow chaos, not be evil. And what better way to create chaos then to arm a desperate people with machina and instill in them a belief that might is right and the rest of the world are savages that need to be conquered? Once the war machine is up and running the Ascians would have to do little except making sure no one sues for peace.

Yet they go a step further anyway. They instill a belief that Eikons are a blight that need to be destroyed. Then the Ascians actively teach the beastribes how to summon said Eikons... essentially fanning the flames. The result is an ever growing conflict, and with that chaos. Ascian!Solus was probably kicking back with a beer and popcorn watching everything unfold (until Lahabrea got himself killed)

Exactly right. Also, ...

I think the reason Varis as so peeved off in that scene is because he took the Empire's professed cause to heart. As I said, it may well be that he comes to realise that to achieve this goal, he will have to work with the Scions, who might be his only hope to cause the Ascians to find someone else to prey on.

[Quor]

Regarding Omega’s fate

Is there anyone else who was really disappointed that Omega died *right* as they understood what Cid was talking about? I almost see Omega’s tale as tragic. I was hoping it would end with Omega and Alpha gong on sick adventures to understand more of the “human element”. But instead Alpha gets a toy version of Omega, which isn’t actually the original at all.

Well, that's the extra tragedy of it. But, given that

Omega was able to, at the instant of it's death, transmit data that would help the WoL engage in combat simulations to become even stronger, I think it's safe to say that the little OMG that runs along with Alpha could possibly be more than a mere automaton. It very well could possess a spark of Omega's newly awakened realizations about life.

The Omega story did seem awfully tragic though. I legit teared up watching Alpha run through the void trying to get "home" and listening to the damaged logs of Omega's pursuit, watching as it slowly degraded more and more over time until it eventually crash landed on Hydaelyn. I do have to wonder though; did Omega come from a star in the constellation of the shards connected to Hydaelyn, or some place beyond even that? Given that Middy is often talked about as being foreign to the star of Hydaelyn, yet the WoD speak of being a part of the shards that form the local "universe" or "galaxy," I have to believe that there may be something beyond the 13 shards + source that we know of.

I ended up feeling more feels about Omega than I expected too. At the end, part of me wanted to scoop up that superfluid and take it with me, show Omega the world. But I do believe that's what OMG and Alpha are doing right now.

[Torquil]

MSQ:

What’s interesting is how Solus seems to defy our understanding of Ascian physicality. He doesn’t appear to have possessed the body we see as he can reproduce it on demand.

(bunch of extra typing cause it's not letting me make this edit otherwise)

[Remedi]

About Omega itself

It was shown many times that the moment it was on the point of making a breaktrough or understanding the core programming was forcing it to the course which he was programmed to go. It's a bit tragic because you can see that Omega has a certain degree of sentience but is still bound by the core programming it was created for as such it would've never been able to understand what it was seeking for.

[Cilia]

OK, sorry, like I said on the first page my internet (cable) was down so I had to wait until yesterday to hit it, and since I've been traipsing about Azeroth more as of late had to wait a day to log back in to the forums.

Anyway, I've only managed to hit the MSQ (and the Arboretum Redux)... I'll get to Omega over the weekend (err Sunday, only day I have off).

MSQ

Well... this was interesting.

So, as I guessed may have been the case, the Burn wasn't the result of primal summons... it was more Allagan shenanigans. Probably / kind of / mostly. Again, without evidence...

So... the voice. The big question I have lingering is why was it just the Scions? I was trying to connect it to Arbert, since the whole talk of a Flood of Light was kind of a big deal with him... but I don't think Y'shtola was with us when we went up against the Warriors of Darkness, and I'm almost certain Alphinaud was and he wasn't affected (as far as we know). It's a very curious phenomenon, and to leave the remaining Archons comatose... hmm.

Now... the big reveal.

Solus zos Galvus was... is an Ascian! Garlemald was raised up to bring chaos to the world while maintaining the balance between Light and Dark! Its mission to eradicate eikons... "civilize the savages"... the racist superiority BS... taking revenge for their natural weakness being exploited... it's all nothing but a bunch of lies!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

I know some people may take offense to that, but I find it darkly funny. So many innocent people oppressed, tortured, and killed... in service to a lie! Holy flippin' space tacos... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

A-anyway... I suppose this does explain a lot. I always had a hunch that the Ascians were behind Garlemald, despite what we were told in interviews. A country does not go from a struggling backwater to a global superpower virtually overnight without something fishy being involved. That said I didn't think Ascian corruption struck it down to the core - never would have guessed the first Emperor was actually an Ascian himself! It's too crazy to guess! Does explain a lot, though... like the contradiction between its stated mission and the consequences the Empire seems so fond of ignoring... and Solus' patronage of theater...

This actually puts Varis in a very interesting (and difficult) position. I'm not of the mind he'd just be a "good guy" if it weren't for the Ascian manipulation, though it does give him a teensy bit of sympathy. His own will has essentially been reduced to nothing - if he doesn't attack the Ascians can easily kill and replace him with someone more favorable to their goals (most likely Elidibus-as-Zenos), but if he does he's just playing into the Ascians' plans. I'm curious as to what he'll do, and even more curious as to when he learned the truth about his grandfather.

"Solus" seems like a very entertaining villain. I'm also curious as to what he'll do - while Lahabrea did screw up something fierce, two Ascians pulling Garlemald's strings seems excessive.

Another glaringly obvious hint that the "Shadowhunter" is totally Gaius. I foresee allying with him, as he seems to have learned his lesson after Legacy and ARR. Garlemald has also begun using the Black Rose poison; chemical weapons are not acceptable. There is no honor in that.

Let's just see where this goes...

[Iscah]

Omega and the Universe

I do have to wonder though; did Omega come from a star in the constellation of the shards connected to Hydaelyn, or some place beyond even that? Given that Middy is often talked about as being foreign to the star of Hydaelyn, yet the WoD speak of being a part of the shards that form the local "universe" or "galaxy," I have to believe that there may be something beyond the 13 shards + source that we know of.

I think you might be confusing the extradimensional "crystal shards in the aetherial sea" (with Hydaelyn as a vast crystal at the centre) with the physical universe surrounding the Earth-like planet Hydaelyn.

I wrote my thoughts about it in post #73.

Solus

What’s interesting is how Solus seems to defy our understanding of Ascian physicality. He doesn’t appear to have possessed the body we see as he can reproduce it on demand.

It's not the first time we've seen them do something like that. Nabriales also re-emerged from the body we defeated in the Chrysalis in an identical form.

As I wrote earlier (post #22), I wonder if they are not required to be possessing someone at all times, but being in their pure aetherial form leaves them more vulnerable.

So in that scene, maybe Solus had a possessed body to begin with (but transformed to his preferred appearance), Varis shot it, then aetherial-Solus jumps out and continues his monologue. Who knows what would happen if Varis tried to shoot him a second time? It might just go straight through him.

[Rosenoire]

More MSQ thoughts:

Solus very clearly refers to Varis as "grandson", and at first glance that could just be taken as referring to the man he possessed, if that's solely their relation. As Solus and Varis have no qualms about speaking openly of the true nature of both the Empire and the Ascians' history and current events, though, why does Elidibus continue to refer to Varis as "Father"? Is it simple dedication to his role as Zenos? If so, I don't see the purpose in it when there's ostensibly no one in that room to be putting on an act for. The same goes for Solus implying blood relation to Varis. Elidibus behaving as though he has to defer to Varis also feels odd in this context. Couldn't another Ascian conceivably just possess Varis in order to carry out their goals in complete alignment? Again, even if it's just an act, who are they putting the act on for in that room? The player? I wouldn't think so, considering all that we know so far.

Elidibus called Varis "Father" there as a reminder of his place. He's expected to issue the orders he's told, and maybe not be quite so obvious that he loathes the man who's supposed to be his son.

And yes, another Ascian could just possess Solus, but one, we don't know how many Ascian Overlords there are--there may not be any available at the moment--and two, someone has to be the face of the Empire, and do all of the mundane business of rulership that the Ascians certainly aren't going to bother with.

[Rocl]

Reply to the above:

More MSQ thoughts:Elidibus called Varis "Father" there as a reminder of his place. He's expected to issue the orders he's told, and maybe not be quite so obvious that he loathes the man who's supposed to be his son.

And yes, another Ascian could just possess Solus, but one, we don't know how many Ascian Overlords there are

Taking for granted you meant Varis here, but it's important to point out we don't necessarily need an Overlord to take control of a body. Black-masked underlings raised by Lahabrea were more than capable of running around in mortal flesh during the Heavensward SMN storyline. At worst, the Ascians would have to kill Varis to let an underling possess him--not sure why they wouldn't, honestly. There's guards and all around Varis; we see a conspicous red and blue-garbed pair of soldiers flanking the Imperial Throne--yet these guards, while seemingly shocked at Solus at first, go back to not caring really quickly. Elidibus even talks about possessing Zenos in front of them and they don't care. What the hell? I digress...

and two, someone has to be the face of the Empire, and do all of the mundane business of rulership that the Ascians certainly aren't going to bother with.

To be fair, while he may not exactly be fond of the work, we have to assume Solus has done the mundane business of rulership before and is capable of doing so again. He founded, and to the best of our knowledge, ruled the Garlean Empire for over fifty years.

[Lauront]

What’s interesting is how Solus seems to defy our understanding of Ascian physicality. He doesn’t appear to have possessed the body we see as he can reproduce it on demand.

Yes, it's almost like the Overlords can store an "image" of the body and create new simulacra for as long as they control it. It could be that they require a particular length or style of possession to do so.

[Remedi]

so I was wondering consideringt what happened

if someonw completes 4.4 MSQ without ever unlocking coil or EX primals in ARR....... is he locked out of them until 4.5?
Also maybe this probably leads to matoya coming back in 4.5 to fix Y'sthola and the scions now that I think about it