Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.4

On Allag...

I believe it's already established lore that the Ascians taught them how to bind Primals/Eikons and other similar entities. Their involvement in the Allagan Empire is all but certain.

Originally Posted by Kallera

About Zodiark:

I have a feeling that this is Zodiark, the game seemed to make clear(in the journal text and musings of them going back home)that the WoD were going to their deaths, that through the 70drk quest the WoL believes Arbert among the dead. As WoL working under Eldibus, nothing seemed to suggest the WoD had any particular insight regarding this, or any talk with Zodiark at all. (Not that we’d be able to ask...)
Note that at times even Hydaelyn has had trouble contacting us without the crystal of light we get on occasion, and Zodiark is effectively doing this on the scions for the first time, specifically plucking people away.

While we are well aware that the flood is something both sides do not want, the notion of Zodiark not wanting a calamity(or this calamity at least) as well as the global phenomenon of aether going down throws something new into the mix.

Is the Ascian form somehow unable to be called in such a manner?
Is the draining aether in the land related to his want to return as an intervention, which gets interpreted by the Ascians first?

My thoughts on that are...

It's nebulous, to be honest, as we could be in error about Arbert's fate. That said, I'm not averse to the idea that it is Zodiark - it'd be very interesting indeed if it was. My suspicion is that he might be using Arbert's voice due to its familiarity to the WoL/Scions, if so. The timing, though, does not rule out the possibility that it is Elidibus. He is certain to see have predicted and seen through Thancred's plan; his warning to Varis suggests he is expecting something of this nature, when he refers to the Scions as "resourceful". Still, I'd say the odds are that it's the WoD if he's alive and, if not, Zodiark.

Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Varis and Zenos:

For me, Varis' callousness about his son's death makes so much more sense now than after the end of 4.0, because my take away was that Zenos hasn't truly been his son for a long time. Whenever Elidibus decided that Zenos would be an "irreplaceable test subject" and gave him the artificial Echo, I think it drove him insane. It makes perfect sense that Varis stopped thinking of him as his son when he realized that he was a monster, and as he noted, "monsters don't belong on thrones". As I mentioned earlier, it also makes me wonder about the circumstances of Zenos' birth. Did Solus suggest that Varis might make a better choice of heir if he had an heir of his own, fully anticipating that a child would be a useful tool, or potential host for another Ascian?



I'm certainly not ready to call Varis a good guy, but I do have some sympathy for him that I definitely didn't previously. Yes, he's ruthless--he'd have to be to claw his way to the top of the Empire. But then he finds out that his grandfather was a meat puppet for an embodiment of Chaos and that everything he thought was true about the founding of the Empire was probably a lie. At some point his son is given an experimental treatment that turns him into a maniacal killing machine. His only real friend gets killed. I'm thinking censoring artists was largely out of spite and a desire to damage something his grand-Ascian liked. That's still not good, but it is understandable.

I liked the idea that the Empire's problems were due to human failings rather than shadowy manipulation from evil overlords. But I do appreciate that Varis now feels less like he came from the Generic Final Fantasy Evil Emperor factory and more like a character with some depth and shades of grey.

On Zenos...

It's certainly food for thought and I agree with your interpretation. My interpretation of Varis's comments at the time were that he did not like his son much but let him conduct experiments that could be of wider benefit to the Empire, but are also risky in nature - plus he took a primal form on and also forsook the Empire, which no doubt bred hostility in his father. I had suspicions that the Resonance might be Ascian in provenance but the basis for it was not strong at the time. However, Elidibus gifting Ilberd Nidhogg's eyes was never accidental and certainly, Aulus stumbling on research enabling him to instill this Resonance is now likely to be anything but accidental, and in all probability, an Ascian project. So you may be right. Whether Zenos was born bad (Lyse apparently thinks not), or made bad, the end result was a monster Varis did not feel any empathy towards. I think they may be planning some manner of redemption arc for Zenos, similar to Yotsuyu - at least something to explain his motives and character better. Whilst I don't think he has the ability to take on any of the new crop of Ascians on directly, if he is even so inclined, I have a strong feeling that he will use his identity to assist the Scions in exposing their ruse, and this might be the wrinkle in their plan that they did not foresee, even if it amounts to nothing. It all depends at this point on Zodiark's true nature and how closely Elidibus and "Solus" align to his aims, and also the circumstances of Zenos's birth, like you point out. Varis is certainly being built up as an intriguing character, and SE now appears to capitalising on what might have seen obscure elements of the MSQ or major side-quests, like Regula's exhortation to the WoL. Ironically for Varis, working with the Scions might yield him a Garlemald closer to what he wants the Empire to be.

Above all else, I can't wait for them to add more of that theme that plays when Solus appears.

Here is the scene for any who want to re-watch without going to an inn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jinmJ6m1Kbc

MSQ

I went back and rewatched the "mystery voice" cutscenes with voices turned on and... okay yeah I don't think I'd have thought of it being Zodiark with that voice.

Now I'm just even more confused.

I feel like it's puzzling enough that I can't speculate on it - that I don't know enough to form an idea.



Also it's so weird hearing everyone speak, and none of them sound how they do in my head.

Omega

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

It also clears up one of the few things that always irked me about Heavensward. The Astrologins of Ishgard could predict the hoard's movements by watching the "dragonstar". I always wondered why that was the case and it now seems that the "dragonstar" might be where the dragons were originally from. It looks like they might still have a connection to it somehow...

I'd meant to post about this for a while, actually, because I'd already been brewing a theory that the "Dragon Star" might be the dragons' homeworld. I think I'd wondered about it anyway, given that we know the dragons are from another world and the tendency of the game to use "star" to mean "planet".

Then, while replaying the earlier parts of the game - probably when you first reach Coerthas - I found that one of the astrologians explains that they make their predictions by tracking the Dragon Star's movement relative to other stars. So that more or less confirms it's a planet, and (if their universe works the same as ours) one that must be in the same solar system as Hydaelyn to be detectably moving across the sky.

Where the new information got interesting was Omega's description of its journey. Through an asteroid belt and then "Passing frozen star... Passing barren star... Passing vortex star... Passing dying star... "

But then its target's last location was "planet ******", so that implies it knows the difference between a star and a planet.

Or does it? A star can't be frozen or barren. A planet can't(?) be a vortex, but that could describe a black hole (which as far as I'm aware, isn't a particularly safe thing to have within your solar system). The ominous "dying star" could be either.

Have they come from within the solar system, or from an actual other star?


I'm kind of tempted to just throw it in the "writers didn't do their research on astronomy" basket until we get some less poetic descriptions.

Originally Posted by Dualblade

Personally I think Omega actually managed to get atleast some form of its data into the OMG minion that now belongs to Alpha, meaning it'll finally be able to experience that which it can't get simply from battle data.

I agree - it came to you of its own accord, plus you see it scuttling into the cave on its own and then chased out by a monster, so it's got some degree of an independent personality that can act on its own.

Plus! When you unlock the Savage trials, it turns out that Omega somehow transmitted a message into the magitek terminal just before disintegrating. Perhaps that wasn't the only device it got hold of?

And on the music:

I love that the final battle music seems to be a remix of that 'climactic defeat of Lahabrea at the Praetorium' music. I was really trying to place the track playing in the rift just before the battle, and I'm not sure if that was the same melody or something else, but I knew it and couldn't think what it was. But as soon as the battle started I thought OH IT'S THAT MUSIC.

It was interesting to see that the patch title did actually make sense, but had a double meaning.

Not only does Violet refer to drawing closer to the Garlean Empire. But the true meaning is the revelation of the Black Rose poison, since poison is associated with the color purple/violet. Clever SE, clever.

Been a while since I've been here, but I'd love to post some of my thoughts on the patch.

I can only talk about the MSQ at the moment due to my corporate overlords working especially hard to keep me busy. But I will discuss a few topics of interest!

General Thoughts

On a general note, I think this patch was enjoyable, if a bit uneven. After the tumultuous events of the previous patch, I was thinking there would be a greater focus on dealing with its revelation, Alphinaud, and GaiusShadowhunter. Moreso setting up the next expansion which (at the time) seemed to be leading us straight to the middle of Garlemald itself! But instead we ended up going in completely different directions. That being said though, I think that most of the patch felt like filler (albeit with one section of very fun filler. This also had the unfortunate effect of making the ending a bit too stuffed with content.

The Xaela were as fun as always. I think that Sadu was especially fun in this particular patch, especially as she goes into downright orgasmic bliss during the fight. The fact that she had full voice acting for much of this made it even more enjoyable. Her actual fight was very fun, during her final enrage phase I actually had to put in some effort, which I'm not used to having to do in story fights ha ha. Magnai's entrance was impeccable as well, his arrogance and hamminess are always a joy to watch. And ending the whole scene with the comical timing of the battle music starting again while the PCs leave was a delightful cherry on top.

I've always had something of a soft spot for Y'Shtola since I started in Limsa Lominsa, but she was far more enjoyable than usual in this patch. I guess all she needed was to dial up her snark game a bit. Watching her put down Magnai was wonderful, as was her concern that she'd end up like Matoya.

Also it was nice to get to hear the other leaders speak again. Especially Best Boy Aymeric.

Overall en enjoyable patch, but a bit too stuffed with filler for my liking. There are several really interesting bits though, which are discussed below.

Garleans, Ascians, and You!

I have some...mixed feelings about the revelations regarding Solus, Varis, and the Ascians. Admittedly it was a twist that I could have predicted, but didn't exactly see coming. So I suppose I'll give points to SE on that one.

Related to Solus being an Ascian and the whole Empire being created to sow chaos, I'm honestly not a fan of it. The Empire makes sense as the 'human' evil present in the game. They're not supernatural monsters or demons, they aren't mind controlled or possessed, they are pretty much just people. All of their vile deeds, human experimentation, genocide, suppression of press/religion, and ruthless expansionism among other things have happened in real life. They also have fairly understandable motivations already or a fascist regime, between racial supremacy and the scapegoat crusade of defeating the Eikons. I'm not a fan that they were actually created by a supernatural force to be Evil. It kind of weakens the faction in that regard. That being said, there are some upsides to this approach. And it seems like something they can always 'walk back' or 'clarify' fairly easily.

First off, it does provide some answers to some of the ''ackshually' questions, especially related to their extremely rapid rise and conquest. Ascians could easily provide them with knowledge of Allagan Ruins to study, deal with anything the Empire could not, and guide them from the shadows. That being said, this isn't a particularly big advantage, since it's only related to things that obsessive lore nerds like us care about. The kind of things that don't necessarily need to be explained.

A much better point is that, well, Varis has become a ton more interesting. He was a character that I'd actually more or less written off as a generic emperor/bad guy, without anything particularly intriguing going on. Now that's completely different. The idea that he's fought heart and soul to become the Emperor and follow it's ideals just to learn it's all been a massive sham is fascinating. While he's not a good person by any means, it does paint several of his actions (especially spitting on his grandfather's corpse) in a very different light. Plus the contrast between the sneaky Ascians and the overly direct Varis is fun. Varis has just become something of a Wild Card, and although I am shocked to say it, I'm looking forward to seeing just what they do with him.

Similarly, even if I'm not totally pleased with the fact that he had to be an Ascian, Solus seems like a very fun villain. He seems somewhat based off of the popularity of FFXV's Ardyn, but is also fun for the same reasons. He has a love of theatrics, and brings an enjoyable hammy air to the Ascians, who have a tendency to be unfortunately dry sometimes (looking at you Lahabrea). He's a villain I'm quite happy with seeing more of.

So all in all mixed, some good, some bad. Still excited to see where it all goes.

The Mysterious Message

There's been a lot of discussion about the mysterious message, which I admit was a fun event. Especially since right before that it seemed to be leading into a 'let's infiltrate Garlemald' plotline only to get derailed at the moment. Seeing poor Alisaie's reaction was fun too, especially since everything is basically falling down all around her. Even if this sounds silly, I like it when characters have human, negative reactions to things. It just makes sense.

I personally think that the mysterious message is coming from Arbert/the Warriors of Darkness, or someone else from their world. They mentioned 'changing the course of history' which seemed to be Arbert's goal. He saw how the warrior of light antics in his world turned out, and he wants you to avoid his mistakes. Additionally, the fact that it was mentioned that their world is in danger from a Flood of Light, which is quite accurate for their particular Shard. They might need help from the scions, so they somehow managed to pluck their souls away. My guess is that they are currently on that other shard, their souls anyway.

As for the next steps, I imagine we'll talk to Matoya. Not only is she literally the best woman for the job, she has an emotional component with Y'shtola that would make her assistance more interesting. We could pluck their souls back, but I think it's equally likely that the new expansion will be based around traveling to this Shard and dealing with their issues. While it might be something of a divergence from the Garlean themed plots...it's a diversion that sounds fun and intriguing as heck!

Anyway, really happy to put my thoughts to page, and would love to discuss some more.